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Digger89L Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2013 Posts: 1130 Location: Western Canada (SK)
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:32 am Post subject: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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Just recently watched a May, 2017 program of Fantomworks, where they re-did a 62 Maserati, and a 1966 VW Beetle Vert Bahama Blue.
According to the program, the VW had been restored a couple of times before, and didn't need any engine, transmission, suspension, or floorpan work ...and no rust repair. They originally quoted the owner a figure in the $60,000 range, and ended up charging them $47,000 ....for a 'very nice driver' restoration of the paint and interior. By no means a 'museum quality' job.
Is this a real 'marketplace number'? Are shops really charging this much for essentially a new paintjob and interior? WOW !!! _________________ "If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken." |
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carcrazed Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2007 Posts: 957 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:41 am Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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These shows are absolutely made up. Granted, Fantomworks might do great work and charge high prices, but the 66 is in NO WAY worth what they put into it. I was involved with production on one of the velocity shows a few years back (I will leave the name out, but they all work the same). Everything was made up and designed for drama and television. I could go into a LONG description of just how fake it was, but I will leave it as "not real at all". Always remember...normally you NEVER get out of a car what you put into it. _________________ 1965 Herbie Replica. 1776cc dual Kads.
1961 Beetle 33,000 Original Miles
"Just When you think you are getting ahead, you're always wrong." |
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VOLKSWAGNUT Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007 Posts: 11056 Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:54 am Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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Fake news..
TV = to entertain..... made you watch..
In reality The saying... fools and their money are soon parted. . is true..
If you have the money.. no mechanical skills, no time.. want it now.. pay up..
If you have the time, skills, and no money. work hard and save up.
With any restoration....shops can set a price to whatever they want...
Most will price it so high with hopes.. it moves on.. or.. someone pays up...
Its like gambling..
I could build 4 to 5 nice convertible drivers for that kind of money..
. _________________ aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited |
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planenut Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2012 Posts: 334 Location: Georgia
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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I always say that there's nothing real about a reality show. Some of the car shows are so fake, I can't, and don't, watch them. The best one I used to watch, and I forgot the name, was the one that did one car each season. That way, you got to see almost every step, and how they did it. You can watch this stuff now, and tell that the situations are scripted and fake. UUGGGHHH!! |
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Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Fake news..
TV = to entertain..... made you watch..
In reality The saying... fools and their money are soon parted. . is true..
If you have the money.. no mechanical skills, no time.. want it now.. pay up..
If you have the time, skills, and no money. work hard and save up.
With any restoration....shops can set a price to whatever they want...
Most will price it so high with hopes.. it moves on.. or.. someone pays up...
Its like gambling..
I could build 4 to 5 nice convertible drivers for that kind of money..
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X 2!!! |
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cyclehobby Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2013 Posts: 156 Location: North Jersey
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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I agree. These TV car shows make me laugh because everything has this made up, unrealistic due date. I have to say if I was spending the money to build some of these cars, rushing to get it done is not the way to go. Yes, I'd want the time put into it, but take the time to do it right would be my goal.
Fantom Works is one of those car shows that can be good at times and can be ultra unrealistic at other times. Yes, when I heard what they charged to do that Bahama Blue Vert, I almost died. Keeping in mind that:
a) Fantom Works may be a car restoration place, but I can name 5 other places that specialize in VWs/Bugs that I'd go to instead.
b) The resto they did appeared to be OK, but they painted the trunk area and inner fender areas flat black. Huh??? Not right.
c) The interior work they did was OK, too, but not factory or custom enough to warrant so high a cost.
Overall, I like to see VWs and Bugs show up on these shows, but I've yet to see a show restore one accurately and show the detail that confirms they knew what they were doing.
I have an idea. Let's create our own Velocity VW resto or custom TV show concept and pitch it to the network. Even without the fake drama, I think many people would watch - even those non-crazy, normal (not VW) people...!! _________________ 1967 Beetle
Northern NJ |
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rcooled Samba Member
Joined: September 20, 2008 Posts: 2506 Location: Santa Cruz, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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cyclehobby wrote: |
Let's create our own Velocity VW resto or custom TV show concept and pitch it to the network. Even without the fake drama, I think many people would watch... |
Unfortunately, not nearly enough people to interest any network. All of these 'reality' shows have one thing in common, whether they're about cars, housewives, survivors, dancing, the Kardashians, or anything else. And that one thing is CONFLICT. That's what people want to see...the circumstances providing the conflict are really of secondary importantance. With the car shows, people want to see pressure to meet fake deadlines, idiot mechanics yelling at each other, projects changing scope in mid-stream, difficult clients, etc. It all started with those guys on 'Orange County Choppers' back in 2002. At first, they were just building custom bikes but soon it degenerated into more screaming matches and temper tantrums instead of showing actual work being done. Ratings went up and the networks struck gold. Many more shows followed, all with pretty much the same format. They're more focused on the personalities involved than on the builds themselves.
There are a couple of exceptions though. 'Chasing Classic Cars' is still more about the cars than about the guys in the shop and 'Wheeler Dealers' shows quite a bit of actual fabrication, although the segments with Mike Brewer buying & selling the cars could go away. _________________ '63 Ragtop (current)
'65 Ghia coupe (totaled)
'67 Ghia convertible (current)
'69.5 Ghia convertible and
'62, '63, '65, '69 Bugs (all long gone) |
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Digger89L Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2013 Posts: 1130 Location: Western Canada (SK)
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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Thanks for all the input, guys. Yes... I'd have to agree: not 'real' reality TV. I was only attracted to this particular Fantomworks show because they were doing the 66 vert. I gave up on most of these shows years ago for the simple fact of all the fake drama on them ...guys arguing and fighting with each other, etc. Not enjoyable to watch that sort of thing when you're only interested in what they're doing with the car project. Talk about 'fake': a few years back, one of these shows (it has the word Guild in the name) had a guy with NO automotive experience (but lots of pipeline welding experience!!!) doing all the welding on the building of Bugatti replica. Good grief! _________________ "If you can't fix it with pop rivets, crazy glue and duct tape, or hold it together with zip ties, velcro or magnets, it REALLY is broken." |
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raycer60 Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013 Posts: 167 Location: H Town Texas
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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Agreed with all the comments above.
Fantomworks is one that I won't watch because the main character guy always makes big drama and has to point out what is wrong with the project vehicle as if he knows it all.
I currently like to watch Iron Resurrection and Texas Metal. A little more "real" to me and the fact that I have been to both shops does help.
Yeah, $47k can build a few nice bugs! _________________ 59 De Luxe Sedan with grafted ragtop |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2003 Posts: 4863 Location: Harmony, PA
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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I didn't see the episode, but I will agree that a lot of the "restoration shop" shows mislead about somethings for entertainment purposes. You guys are a bit of out touch with reality when it comes to an actual restoration shops labor rates though.
Although $47k is a little high for a "driver", it isn't that far out of line for a job with a Concours paint job with straight precisely aligned panels, and a full redo of the interior.
Consider your average "good" paint job may have $2500 in paint/materials, or a Concours job, possibly $5000. You may be able to get by with a $1000 in materials for a plain lessor/common interior, but a top level interior from someone like West Coast has their materials listed for $2200+ for a stock 66 interior. Sure materials may be cheaper for a "custom" interior, but how custom may actually create more labor. So, take your $47k, and subtract either $3500, or $7200, and you get $43.5k/$39.8k. With actual restoration shops having labor rates around the $100 an hour range, that gives you 435/398 hours. So, say 400 hours to round it off. That's 10, 40 hour weeks with one individual working on the car. Two individuals, 5 weeks.
So the car in question had a full paint job, and full interior redo? How many that have commented in this post have COMPLETELY disassembled a vehicle to repaint it, stripped it to bare metal, did the necessary body work, and painted it? How many have stripped an interior to the bare seat frames, and body sheet metal, installed padding/seat covers, carpet, and headliner? For those that have, how long did it take you? Did your finished product win any high end awards, or simply garnish a "hey that's a nice car" at the local cruise?
Regardless of whether you are restoring a Civic, or a Ferrari, labor rates of a job don't care how much the final car is worth. "I could build" instances don't count ANY of their labor as cost, which is as much as 75% of the total cost of a paid job. So those saying I could build 3 cars for $47k, great, you have 3 cars in which you roughly have $15K invested in parts materials. In all actuality, your $15k in parts represents an additional $45k in labor if 100% of the job was done by a paid shop. |
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Sharp64 Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 5304 Location: Central Florida
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Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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raycer60 wrote: |
Agreed with all the comments above.
Fantomworks is one that I won't watch because the main character guy always makes big drama and has to point out what is wrong with the project vehicle as if he knows it all.
I currently like to watch Iron Resurrection and Texas Metal. A little more "real" to me and the fact that I have been to both shops does help.
Yeah, $47k can build a few nice bugs! |
I like Iron Resurrection but couldn’t stand Texas Metal after one show. Too “bro” for me.
I actually like some of the shows, Fantomworks is actually one I like better. Bitchin Rides is another I enjoy. Don’t have a clue if it’s real or not but I find it enjoyable and know the owner got his start in VW’s. If you look closely there is a vert KG in the background in some of the shows this season and what looked like a ragtop bug as well. I’m hoping to see episodes on my those.
Ones I really can’t stand are “Toyzmaker”, “Unique Rides”, “RMD” and “The AutoFirm”. I find these so irritating I can’t stand it.
I was going to mention the 47k being high but probably not too ridiculous considering I had quotes of 10–15k to paint the outside of a stripped down rust free car with very little body work. This was an estimate only and can only imagine what it would have been if they had to take it apart and reassemble it. Especially at the $150/hour they stated as their rate. Hell I got a quote of $375 to install a headliner with me providing the headliner. Again, taking it apart and starting from scratch I could see it costing into the thousands easy. _________________ 1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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rcroane Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2013 Posts: 2000 Location: Springfield, Virginia
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Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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Was watching an episode of this show tonight featuring an Opel. It has a Pierburg fuel pump. One of the mechanics was doing a final check and noticed oil seeping from the top of the pump (around the diaphragm). Dan, the owner of the shop told him the German's designed it that way...it's supposed to seep oil to prevent damage to the car.
Huh? _________________ '65 Sunroof Bug |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 34012 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1966 VW vert on Fantomworks |
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Rerun today, and I noticed a few things wrong. As they drive away, you can see they hooked up the brake wires to the turn signals (top of split lens). The shell paint scheme in wrong. As they drive off the husband manetinos "36 horsepower" and of course this would have started out as a 50 HP 1300, and is almost certainly larger/more powerful now.
Minor nits, yes. But easy to catch if they cared. |
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