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Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Would like to get my gas heater working, and I've been reading both this forum and the one with Classic Camper.

My heater hasn't been running for many years, and my better judgment tells me not to try it. Perhaps there may be some basic steps to safely start in checking it out. Don't know if al the basic wiring is still intact. It seems to me sometime in the past years a vw dealer somewhere that didn't know about the gas heater disconnected some wiring while in for service because it bothered the mechanic. I know I can turn it on and the fan runs ok, but I don't hear a pump running-----it seems I use to hear a pump running when all was working yeas ago.

I have a feeling that the heater should be removed, and given a good going over. BTW my car is a 71 sedan. Give me your best advice. Bob


If you hear the fans running...make sure which fan. The auxiliary blower mounted to the air cooling duct has to run. For that to run...the floor lever needs to be pulled up/open.

If the fuel pump is not running/clicking.....its on the left side of teh car just forward of the rear wheel....what will happen is that when you pull the floor lever up...and say with teh car off...you push in and turn teh green thermostat knob on the dash....the auxiliary fan, the turbo blower in the unit and the fuel pump should all start working.

But...if the fuel pump is clicking...and the line is actually dry/empty from long disuse.......you only have about a minute running like this before the safety circuit shuts the main blower and fuel pump circuit down.

This is a safety system attached to the flame temperature probe. If the system does not "see" flame within about a minute....it shuts the system down except for the auxiliary fan. It does this because it "assumes" that you have a fuel line leak so the unit is not getting fuel and/or there is fuel possibly leaking all over the top of the heater....which is a very common and real issue.

So the first thing to do before doing anything else is to change out the fuel hose.

If you decide to remove and clean up the unit...which is a very good thing to do...because then you can change the skinny o-rings between the turbo unit and the heater body and clean and adjust the two points sets inside of the blower........while you are at this....I HIGHLY recommend buying about 3 feet of 3/16: steel or stainless steel brake line.....and a steel or brass compression union.

Then lightly sand the fuel hose inlet nipple on the heater body and/or the ferrule inside of the pressure union...until the union slips over and tightens up on the fuel inlet nipple on the heater . Then attache that 2-3 feet of steel line to the other end of the union.

You now have a steel leak proof line that extends just past the heater to hook up to the more easily reached and out of danger...rubber fuel line to the pump.

Even 20 years ago...the heater fuel line had to be changed ...religiously...every two years. It always rots off and cracks right at the inlet nipple....leaking fuel all over the heater...and not allowing the heater to run.

And..especially in a sedan...that fuel hose is a REAL chore to snake back up there and connect through that little hole behind the back seat. Wit ha steel line you never have to do that again.

And in the mean time....take teh pump loose....put some carb cleaner inside the inlet and outlet...let it soak...tap on it a little...and then connect it up to a 12 volt battery. Each time you touch teh positive side it should click once. It does not stay running. Its an impulse pump. Work with it until you can get solid clicks.

Then get everything together and trace all your wires. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

OK, my choice would be to remove the unit. So what are the steps and complications in removing it. Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
OK, my choice would be to remove the unit. So what are the steps and complications in removing it. Bob


Well its basically over the transmission. Disconnect the battery, jack the car up.

Take teh wing nut loose from teh body that attaches the exhaust pipe. On your back with a 2' socket extension and a 10mm socket...un-clamp the tail pipe.

Remove the two cover plate behind the back seat just so you can see things.

Then....at each corner of the unit are a 10mm nut on a stud. These go to those hex type rubber isolater feet. Undo each 100 nut and the unit basically slides down toward the drivers side. You will need to maneuver it around the axle shaft.

As you get it to this point you will see that it has its own harness. There is a metal spar with a clamp up on top that lets the heater unit loose from its harness. Unplug the two wires from the coil and the two from the glow plug...and the 4-5 pin plug from the side of the blower...snip the fuel line and it should come out. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

That is simpler than I thought. I've never seen the access plate behind the back seat, but I'm sure it's there. Thanks Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

I know about the shock plate, but I haven't seen another one.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
I know about the shock plate, but I haven't seen another one.


If you have a sedan....dead center in the middle of the back seat...behind the back seat in that package area...if you look carefully you will see that the mouse fur carpeting has a square cut in it....about 8" x 8". Its glued to the same board material underneath it that you have to lift up when you lift up those triangle corner pieces when you work on the shocks.

That whole carper and cardboard plate lifts up. Underneath it is round black plate just like the one over the fuel sending unit up front. It has three screws. Next to it is an oval plate about 2" x 3" with two screws.

The coil and fuel fitting are under the round one and the glow plug is under the oval one. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:48 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Ok thanks. Right now before I start taking anything loose----when I push in and turn the green dash knob all I get is the fan running. I don't hear anything else. Bob
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Ok thanks. Right now before I start taking anything loose----when I push in and turn the green dash knob all I get is the fan running. I don't hear anything else. Bob


Lets be sure which fan it is first. So open the engine hood and disconnect one of the wires to the blower fan mounted to the air intake scoop. Then try the green knob again.

If you get no sound at all now then this was the only thing running. If however you disconnect this smaller fan and you still hear a kind of noisey fan running....thats the furbo unit....which is good. But unless the fuel pump is clicking....very shortly the turbo fan will shut down.

So a couple of other things to check before you start pulling things off. On the left side of your engine compartment are a row or relays. You should have the EFI power relay is the first in line moving from left to right....then the silver double relay for the heater....then the black relay with the red button which is the heater safety system relay and then the small cube relay which is your rear window defrost.

So....push the little red lever on the black relay to the side. If its tripped you will feel it pop. Then try the system again and see if both blowers start up and the fuel pump starts clicking.

If the black relay needed to be reset....but the pump and turbo still does not work....check the fuse in the inline fuse holder with the olive green wires. Make note of what color the fuse is.

If its blown....its possible with age it has the problem I described earlier in this thread that the system is just higher in resistance with age...and needs a 25 amp fuse and not the 16 amp fuse. Replace the fuse and see if things run.

If the pjmp is still not clicking....its probably frozen up....very common. So underneath the car....remove the pump....but first clean and tighten the wire terminals and see if that fixes it. Then remove the pump....fill with berrymabs chem tool or PB blaster....let it soak overnight....then rap on it a few times.....then see jf you can make it click as I described earlier. Many times this un freezes it.

So if with all of this you CAN make the blowers run and the pump click.....personally I would still remove the unit, clean and reseal it.....but for now....you MUST replace the fuel line for sure.

Typically what works....is you need about 6-7 feet of 3mm bore fuel line. Its almost no pressure but needs to be good to about 250F. You will have to ...in that tjght space through that oval hole....work it onto the fuel nipple. I use one of those spring type clamps you can,reach with needle nose pliers. Then feed the rest of the hose through the access port . If memory serves there are some small hoops attached to the body to feed it,through. Then cut to length and connect to the puml. Change the inlet line from the plastic resrevoir in the return line to the pump to.

Pull the glow plug and clean and gap it. Make sure the connectors go back to the proper area and are tight.

So when everything is working and you have a new line.....it will run for a minute with the pump clicking....and then shut down because it takes a while for the fuel to pump up to the inlet. So when you hear the pump stop clicking....turn it off and wait for the auxiliary fan to stop and then start it again. It will take about 3-4 cycles of this before fuel reaches the chamber and you get ignition. Ray
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Interesting problem. When the car was assembled the glue holding the fiber mat down ran under about a third of the removable square section giving access to the heater. It had to be peeled back, and was not easy. Is that a normal issue with this?

Also the gasket for the oval access plate is soaked in oil, and sort of just broke into at a weak point.

Years back the left CV Joint broke, and thru grease all over the left side and center left of the car. It was a real mess before I discovered it. This may be a result of that incident. It was a real mess to clean-up and I still see signs of it when working underneath.
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titan3c
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Followed your instructions, and both fans work as should, but the pump still didn't click. The fuse on the olive green wire was good, but was a 8amp. I replaced it with a 16 amp----didn't have a 25.

One fan cut off, and the second fan ran for awhile and cut off, as you suggested could happen if the pump didn't start clicking.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Followed your instructions, and both fans work as should, but the pump still didn't click. The fuse on the olive green wire was good, but was a 8amp. I replaced it with a 16 amp----didn't have a 25.

One fan cut off, and the second fan ran for awhile and cut off, as you suggested could happen if the pump didn't start clicking.


Check the wires at the pump for clean and tight.

Its also worthwhile before going any further to remove the pump from its clamp...and probably easier to remove it with the clamp...and test it by hooking the negative up to 12 volts...then touch the positive wire to the battery. If its working...each connection should make it click once.

If you cannot get any clicks this way....then the pump is frozen up and needs to be soaked in cleaner and tapped until it frees up. This works about 9 our of 10 times. Its usually varnish inside.

If it does click...and the connections and wires are good....its usually dirty or poorly adjusted points inside of the blower housing.

Instead of taking the whole unit out you could remove teh clamp and pull teh blower assembly out...but thats just about as much finicky work as removing the whole unit. Ray
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

I'm not at all familiar with this unit so clue me ---- where is the pump on the unit. Bob
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
I'm not at all familiar with this unit so clue me ---- where is the pump on the unit. Bob


Mounted to the body just forward of the left rear wheel. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:10 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Question: At my age I can still do this, but I'm considering using the lift at a local shop with the latest in lift equipment instead of jacking up the rear end of the car. So my question is what would be your estimate on the lift time necessary to remove the heater? Also I would have help doing it this way. Bob
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:24 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Question: At my age I can still do this, but I'm considering using the lift at a local shop with the latest in lift equipment instead of jacking up the rear end of the car. So my question is what would be your estimate on the lift time necessary to remove the heater? Also I would have help doing it this way. Bob


Probably no more than about 30 minutes. Once you have the car up in the air....the tail pipe is about 3-4 minutes. The four 10mm nuts about 10 minutes maximum. Be prepared that one or more of these 10mm nuts which are bonded to hex shaped rubber isolators.....will tear. No problem I can give you a part number ro buy new ones at mcmaster carr for about,$3 each.
You can cut the fuel line down near the pump.....but you need to plug it. Use a screw and small clamp.

There may be a flame trap filter hanging down from the blower motor. If its in the way....it comes loose with a single 10mm screw.

Once the heater drops down from the body.....you will see the wiring harness attschment point to the heater. It uses either a metal strap clamp or a vinyl wire tie. Cut it loose.

Pull the five pin plug to the heater motor. You will see a thick cable going to a probe with a rubber boot right near the motor. DO NOT.....pull the rubber boot loose and disconnect the wires. The wires inside the boot are hot.

Take a 12mm....iirc....wrench and loosen the cinch nut at the base of the probe and pull it out of the heater body.
You will need to disconnect the two wires to the coil on top of the heater. Mark them first. You will need to disconnect the two wires to the glow plug. Mark them first.

All other wires should be able to stay connected. The heater should come out and the harness stays in the car.

Pull the wires up out of the way and hold them to whatever you can with zip ties so you can drive the car without the wires gettjng wrapped around the axles. Ray
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Thanks; I jacked the car up and took a look to just get familiar with what I'm doing. I located the fuel pump and the connections to it, which are split off of the cable to the fan. I didn't see the four 10mm hex nuts yet.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Just tinkering around getting familiar with everything and I turned the green knob on and both fans kept running this time, and a definite alternating thump, thump sound started------could that have been the pump. It was not a clicking sound. Perhaps just coming from the fan huh. What confused me was that the fresh air fan kept running after the other one started, and both kept running, and I heard the thumping sound. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Ok---I crawled underneath next to the fuel pump, and it is definitely the fuel pump. When underneath it sounded more like a click. Bob
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
Ok---I crawled underneath next to the fuel pump, and it is definitely the fuel pump. When underneath it sounded more like a click. Bob


The thumping sound...may be combustion. Get it started again and put your hand near the tail pipe and see if heat is coming out.

Also until you get the fuel line replaced keep a fire extinguisher handy. Ray
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Eberspaecher BA4 Overhaul Reply with quote

Thanks-----Yes I will not be running it until I'm sure all is OK, and the fuel line is all important. I've gone as far as I'm going with it before removing the entire unit and giving it proper attention. Bob
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