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ConcreteAce's '51 build
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sled
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

ah! I too could not tell what color the car was..But if it is bordeaux then the interior is definitely not original.

I think a new interior would look very nice!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

ConcreteAce wrote:
Its Bordeaux. Strange color it photographs differently depending on how the lighting is.


That is one of my favorite things about Bordeaux red -- the color appears to change dramatically in different light. I've had 4 cars painted in that color over the years. It's by far my favorite.
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My current ride: 1954 Riviera Motors Oval Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

ConcreteAce wrote:
Sled here are some close ups of the interior. I am waiting on the birth certificate to confirm if it is a Hoffman car. My buddy who bought it in the late 80's thinks it is a Hoffman car, he bought it out of New York himself (it came to him with a 50 NY plate as seen below). He also stated to me that when he bought it it was original paint and interior, he was the one who orchestrated the outside respray for the guy I bought it from. So if indeed the interior was changed it was changed before 1985. This mind you is all second hand information.


Ethan, great car and I'm excited to follow this thread and learn even more about the split era from this wealth of knowledge on these forums. I've read before somewhere, and probably on here, that Hoffman cars had a couple of signature add-ons that distinctively made them Hoffman cars. The first one was what people call a Cyclone air filter in place of the T air filter which your car does not have. The second thing was like a pin-stripe ring (blue in color, I think) around the bottom of the Ivory shift knob which I think I might have spotted in this picture from one of your above photos.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Very nice car. I had a Bordeaux red '50 Sunroof a few years back, brings back memories. Your split looks really solid and I am sure the water issues can be sorted. The incorrect/missing parts are all bolt ons, so just save your $$$ !!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:06 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

sled wrote:
that seat upholstery and lower door panel material definitely does not look original. That pattern is april of 51 through september of 52

for some crazy reason, there are blue stripes on that upsholtery!? original streifenbraun (striped brown) upholstery have a dark brown stripe and a lighter brown stripe


That is Streifengrau which would be correct for a Azure Blue split. Grey with Dark Grey and Blue stripes.

The fabric looks very nice as do the covers and door panels but the piping should be smooth and the leatherette on the bottom of the doors is definitely not correct. Perhaps he can find someone who needs a Streifengrau interior and sell the upholstery to them to fund the proper interior.
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sled
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
sled wrote:
that seat upholstery and lower door panel material definitely does not look original. That pattern is april of 51 through september of 52

for some crazy reason, there are blue stripes on that upsholtery!? original streifenbraun (striped brown) upholstery have a dark brown stripe and a lighter brown stripe


That is Streifengrau which would be correct for a Azure Blue split. Grey with Dark Grey and Blue stripes.



doesn't look like original streifengrau material to me. The dark stripes appear to be brown and the base material looks too brownish? Either way its not original as the piping is not smooth grey and as you mentioned the lower door panel material.

very curious though! if neither of the previous owners had the interior re-done, then it must have been done a long time ago with some material someone was making (or found)?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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ConcreteAce
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:57 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

I will say that I am glad to hear that the interior is not original. I am not to fond of it, but I will have to live with it until I finish the wife's ghia. Joel Thanks for those tid bits of information on Hoffman cars. Like I stated one of the previous owners thought it may have been, but he was not 100% sure. Now for the long wait on the BC. That will answer a lot of the questions I have, mainly about the motor.

At this time I have a ton of clean up to do and that alone will take a few months. I am trying to figure out what to do about the motor and tranny situation. Both will have to be rebuilt, and neither are cheap. Trans by far will probably be the more expensive (it has a broken shift fork) the engine I can tackle that one myself, no telling what the parts will cost though. I am leaning towards putting a later tranny and a 36 in it that I have access to until I blow it apart for the real build. That way I can at least drive it in the next few months.

One of the things that is really worrying me is the wiring.I need to figure out what to do with the original harness. I am seeing a lot of cracks in the sheathing and wire exposed on tons of it. I plan to put one of John Henry's wiring harnesses in once I do the rebuild, but I do not want to put it in right now and have it get nasty. So all I can think of is taping the cracks on each individual wires. That's going to suck, but it will probably be much worse to buy a harness and then re-buy another because it will not be fresh by the time I am ready to blow it back apart.
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ConcreteAce
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:00 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

sled wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:
sled wrote:
that seat upholstery and lower door panel material definitely does not look original. That pattern is april of 51 through september of 52

for some crazy reason, there are blue stripes on that upsholtery!? original streifenbraun (striped brown) upholstery have a dark brown stripe and a lighter brown stripe


That is Streifengrau which would be correct for a Azure Blue split. Grey with Dark Grey and Blue stripes.



doesn't look like original streifengrau material to me. The dark stripes appear to be brown and the base material looks too brownish? Either way its not original as the piping is not smooth grey and as you mentioned the lower door panel material.

very curious though! if neither of the previous owners had the interior re-done, then it must have been done a long time ago with some material someone was making (or found)?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sled you are right there is no grey or dark grey in this interior. It is all browns with the exception of the blue stripes. I am guessing that it it an old old aftermarket interior.
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Ethan Dunlap
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sled
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

ConcreteAce wrote:
I will say that I am glad to hear that the interior is not original. I am not to fond of it, but I will have to live with it until I finish the wife's ghia. Joel Thanks for those tid bits of information on Hoffman cars. Like I stated one of the previous owners thought it may have been, but he was not 100% sure. Now for the long wait on the BC. That will answer a lot of the questions I have, mainly about the motor.

At this time I have a ton of clean up to do and that alone will take a few months. I am trying to figure out what to do about the motor and tranny situation. Both will have to be rebuilt, and neither are cheap. Trans by far will probably be the more expensive (it has a broken shift fork) the engine I can tackle that one myself, no telling what the parts will cost though. I am leaning towards putting a later tranny and a 36 in it that I have access to until I blow it apart for the real build. That way I can at least drive it in the next few months.




I don't blame you with the interior. It looked decent from afar but those detail photos show it to be a bit funky. I think the correct earlier brown interior would look awesome when you get to that point!

tough call on the engine/transaxle. You're right they are both costly to rebuild...but until you tear them apart you don't know the condition of the internals. You could get lucky and have the inside of the engine be very nice, maybe even just clean everything and re-assemble, who knows! If not, pistons and cylinders, and/or heads are very expensive. Please do not open the case up for 77mm (36hp) cylinders as tempting as it may be!

normally my opinion would be to rebuild the 25hp and drive it with that, but considering the car is very presentable as-is and you want to drive it sooner than later, I agree you should run a later split case trans and a 36hp. It would be very easy to swap all of the 25hp external parts over onto your 36hp and make it look like a 25hp to all but the most expert eyes. Many people say a 25hp is practically undriveable but I disagree. The 36hp will have a bit more pep in its step though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Congrats on getting the split. I like the pic with the Ruckus. I own a 52 and parked next to it is my Ruckus!
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ConcreteAce
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:07 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Regardless of which route I will take. I still have to disassemble the motor and tranny and clean clean clean to reverse the damage done by being flooded. Well to bring in the new year I asked my oldest son if he wanted to get some garage time in. Well that lasted all but 30 min for him, and he was back inside playing video games with his buddy's.

But I did get the motor torn down. As of right now, I have one cylinder that somehow fused itself to the head, one lifter that is stuck in its bore and the pulley decided it did not, and would not budge. It ended up a taco once I put my puller onto it. Well enjoy the photos of the carnage, I'm done for tonight. tomorrow I'll clean clean and then some more cleaning. What am I saying tomorrow is already here. Very Happy


Can someone tell me if this is the correct fuel pump?
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I'm also guessing this is the correct oil pressure switch due to it being a screw terminal
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I did learn something new. I cant believe the cylinder tin goes on before the cylinders. That really tripped me out.
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This is another unexpected thing. Lash caps on the intake valves. None on the exhaust valves. Is this a normal thing for a 25H engine? The rockers are soooo tiny.
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here comes the yuck......
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the stuck cylinder Evil or Very Mad
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Cam has a spot that has some bad corrosion
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Ethan Dunlap
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Ethan, fuel pump looks correct...8mm
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ConcreteAce
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Porsche904 wrote:
Ethan, fuel pump looks correct...8mm


Thanks! I really know nothing about 25h motors. So this is going to be very educating for me.
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Ethan Dunlap
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Yes, pump and oil sender look correct. Sender should be date stamped.

JH
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

René R. wrote:
ConcreteAce wrote:
Its Bordeaux. Strange color it photographs differently depending on how the lighting is.


That is one of my favorite things about Bordeaux red -- the color appears to change dramatically in different light. I've had 4 cars painted in that color over the years. It's by far my favorite.



I was wondering what it’s color was. It changes in every photo. I thought it was a deep brown color. But I may have found the color I want to use for my ‘64 one day.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

ConcreteAce wrote:
sled wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:
sled wrote:
that seat upholstery and lower door panel material definitely does not look original. That pattern is april of 51 through september of 52

for some crazy reason, there are blue stripes on that upsholtery!? original streifenbraun (striped brown) upholstery have a dark brown stripe and a lighter brown stripe


That is Streifengrau which would be correct for a Azure Blue split. Grey with Dark Grey and Blue stripes.



doesn't look like original streifengrau material to me. The dark stripes appear to be brown and the base material looks too brownish? Either way its not original as the piping is not smooth grey and as you mentioned the lower door panel material.

very curious though! if neither of the previous owners had the interior re-done, then it must have been done a long time ago with some material someone was making (or found)?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sled you are right there is no grey or dark grey in this interior. It is all browns with the exception of the blue stripes. I am guessing that it it an old old aftermarket interior.


I didn't look closely enough at the pictures. Bill Hirsh used to sell a lot of vintage style upholstery cloth some of which was pretty close to early VW fabric.

Too bad the fabric is wrong because the seat covers appear to be done nicely. Still should be able to find a buyer who wants it for a driver.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Nice build. Good luck.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

Awesome car, Ethan!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
ConcreteAce wrote:
sled wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:
sled wrote:
that seat upholstery and lower door panel material definitely does not look original. That pattern is april of 51 through september of 52

for some crazy reason, there are blue stripes on that upsholtery!? original streifenbraun (striped brown) upholstery have a dark brown stripe and a lighter brown stripe


That is Streifengrau which would be correct for a Azure Blue split. Grey with Dark Grey and Blue stripes.



doesn't look like original streifengrau material to me. The dark stripes appear to be brown and the base material looks too brownish? Either way its not original as the piping is not smooth grey and as you mentioned the lower door panel material.

It appears to be what was used on a 48 chevy, I believe Hampton Coach sells that material


very curious though! if neither of the previous owners had the interior re-done, then it must have been done a long time ago with some material someone was making (or found)?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sled you are right there is no grey or dark grey in this interior. It is all browns with the exception of the blue stripes. I am guessing that it it an old old aftermarket interior.


I didn't look closely enough at the pictures. Bill Hirsh used to sell a lot of vintage style upholstery cloth some of which was pretty close to early VW fabric.

Too bad the fabric is wrong because the seat covers appear to be done nicely. Still should be able to find a buyer who wants it for a driver.
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belairman
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:54 pm    Post subject: Re: ConcreteAce's '51 build Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
ConcreteAce wrote:
sled wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:
sled wrote:
that seat upholstery and lower door panel material definitely does not look original. That pattern is april of 51 through september of 52

for some crazy reason, there are blue stripes on that upsholtery!? original streifenbraun (striped brown) upholstery have a dark brown stripe and a lighter brown stripe


That is Streifengrau which would be correct for a Azure Blue split. Grey with Dark Grey and Blue stripes.



doesn't look like original streifengrau material to me. The dark stripes appear to be brown and the base material looks too brownish? Either way its not original as the piping is not smooth grey and as you mentioned the lower door panel material.

It appears to be what was used on a 48 chevy, I believe Hampton Coach sells that material


very curious though! if neither of the previous owners had the interior re-done, then it must have been done a long time ago with some material someone was making (or found)?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Sled you are right there is no grey or dark grey in this interior. It is all browns with the exception of the blue stripes. I am guessing that it it an old old aftermarket interior.


I didn't look closely enough at the pictures. Bill Hirsh used to sell a lot of vintage style upholstery cloth some of which was pretty close to early VW fabric.

Too bad the fabric is wrong because the seat covers appear to be done nicely. Still should be able to find a buyer who wants it for a driver.
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