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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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My good brother Fred and I hauled this Beetle back from Edmonton seven or eight years ago now.
Fred bought it and had plans to revive it, but other, more interesting projects kept cropping up and this one never quite made it to the top of his list.
I'm more of a split bus guy, but I have always had a soft spot for ovals and 356's (the ultimate Beetle).
Fred ultimately decided that the oval was never going to make it to the top of his list and, since I had right of first refusal, I had an ultimatum to either pony up, or wave goodbye.
I decided to pony up, so we made a deal, dug the oval out from behind his house and I brought it home.
I'm also an original paint subscriber, so I figured I would completely reboot the mechanicals and roll this in OG paint.
Once I got it home and had a chance to crawl all over it, I realized a couple things.
1) it wasn't in original paint. It had been stripped down to bare metal sometime in it's life and repainted with a colour closer to the puke green end of the spectrum than it's original Agave Green.
2) There was more rust needed to be cut out of the body and repaired than I had initially thought.
As I am mulling my options, another good brother, trevo (of smooth gate BD fame) calls me up and tells me he has made a deal on two extra rusty ragtop beetles and one of the rag sections may be available once he gets them home and has a chance to assess options.
After a couple weeks, one of the rag sections is available, so I take a weekend, drive out to 306, and we dismantle this outrageously crusty 60 Euro rag, and I head home with a rag section and a handful of other parts for my oval.
A grafted in rag section requires even more body work and my hope of not having to tackle major body work and drive this thing in ratty paint has now completely evaporated.
What the heck have I gotten myself into??
_________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Another good friend was getting married and having somewhat of a hot rod themed reception.
He is both a VW and a hot rod guy, so an eclectic collection of rods, led sleds, Porsches and VW's at his reception.
At his reception, I was introduced to one of the best (and most reclusive) metal fabricators in the city who was just coming off an employment free summer and had a little time to spare before diving into his next job (de Luxe BD ).
He has also grafted multiple rag sections into both his own Zwitters and other Beetles.
This was a rare opportunity to tap this guys vast knowledge and experience, so I commissioned him.
I have done simple rust repair on my buses, floor patching and rocker replacement stuff, but never anything like a rag section.
From what I have seen, most rags are hacked in, and a few are grafted in.
Realistically, if I undertook this, it would likely be a hack, but with Jeff doing it, it would be a surgical graft.
The oval came with a decklid, although not it's original, it was in really good shape - with no rust, and only minor dents to massage out.
Regardless, the first order of business is to attend to the rust.
The rear of the quarters on both sides was rusted through, and the bottoms needed a little attention.
The rear bumper mounts were toast, so they got replaced.
The inner fenders on the front required attention and there were a couple small spots on the passenger side heater channel that required patching.
Overall, the oval was really solid, I decided I did not need to split the body from the pan as the only significant rust on the pan was a hole about the size of a dime in the battery tray.
I have no intention of running stock pea shooter exhaust, and I think the cutouts really detract from the lines on the rear apron, so I welded them up.
I did all the welding where it would not be seen, and Jeff did all the welding where precision really mattered.
After we were done for the day, I would clean up the mess, put all the tools away and basically have everything ready for a fresh start the next morning.
Jeff would arrive to a clean, organized work space, which can go a long ways to preserving a positive attitude about the days undertakings. _________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin
Last edited by Riff Raff on Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Once our feet were wet with patching a couple places, the next task on the agenda was the grafting of the rag section into the roof.
As the rag section came from a square window beetle, we could not use the existing measurements on the roof section of the donor.
The distance from the windshield to the rag is different on the beetle with the larger windshields.
Measurements were taken from a Zwitter to ensure the placement was correct.
The method used was to effectively cut a precision hole in the roof of the oval that is about 20mm smaller than the section cut from the donor roof. Carefully crimp the oval roof all the way around such that the donor section nestles in the crimped area flush with the existing roof.
The donor section is held in place by the crimped section and then 4000 spot welds are applied to effectively lap weld the donor section to the oval roof.
Worked perfectly.
It is strong, and once the welds were ground down, it looked almost factory without any body filler.
The front reinforcing struts were then gas welded into place.
The rear fenders are originals and in pretty good shape. Jeff repaired them with hammer and dolly, pick and file, and a little gas welding.
I am going to run Euro bumpers, so the over rider holes were welded shut.
The front fenders were factory replacements (when the car was painted I presume), but the signal lights were never installed.
I decided to leave the clean look of the bare fender and will incorporate some headlights that have integrated signal lights.
I would have gone so far as to add semaphore posts, but anyone I knew that had them had a project they were destined for and I didn’t pursue the matter with any great enthusiasm anyhow.
The quarters needed more filler than I would have liked. That was bit of a surprise as we had taken great care in fitting the donor sections to minimize the filler required.
Not a serious issue for me as the Beetle is really nothing special in the realm of old Beetles and it is destined to be a driver, not a queen. _________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin
Last edited by Riff Raff on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:59 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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With all of the metal work and filler complete, the Beetle is off to another friend who does body work. I am not a body and paint guy, but we are fortunate in 403 to have a village of gearheads with various skillsets who all help each other out.
My bus towbar works well on the Beetle to deliver it to Jon’s shop.
A couple layers of high build primer, lots of block sanding and it is through it’s next stage.
Painters are fussy by nature. If they are going to put their name on a paintjob, they want it to look good.
Brett, the painter, did his own final prep on the beetle before we took it into the shop for sealer and paint.
It just so happens that my neighbor is operations manager for a dealership in town and not only did he get me all my paint and supplies for cost, but also offered up the dealership paint booth for the weekend so we could get the Beetle painted before the inevitable change in the weather makes the logistics much more challenging.
Brett is meticulous about masking.
Coat of sealer.
Really really happy to have a network of brothers that makes this an enjoyable venture that does not break the bank. _________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin
Last edited by Riff Raff on Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Time to think about mechanicals.
Fred provided an adjustable beam from a mid sixties beetle that I have installed. I’m a stock height guy, but the front fender gap on the ovals never really appealed to me. The goal is to lower the front by 40mm or so and 25mm or so in the rear.
The original front beam has been shelved for posterity.
The original transaxle had a really sloppy hockey stick and a seized cross shaft.
Even though it shifts through all the gears and turns nicely, I acquired an April 55 transaxle that is just as unknown, shifts smooth and rolls nicely, but has nice snug hockey stick and clean bell housing as it appears to have had an engine attached to it until recently.
My reasoning for trying the 55 transaxle first is that the snug hockey stick is indicative of fewer miles, and therefore a greater chance it is fully functional.
The only reliable method I have found to discern the true condition of a transaxle is to install it, bolt an engine to it and drive it.
That’s how I will find out if this one is any good.
The original will get shelved in the shed and will be preserved for the next steward.
I acquired some NOS Italian 58-64 rear drums that had the extra lip kind of crudely ground off, but they are perfectly serviceable and will work well for my purposes.
I have refreshed all the hardware and found some NOS brake shoes as well.
Exactly what brakes to run is still undecided, but having stock parts for oval rear brakes in inventory is good practice regardless.
I cannot imagine driving an oval with syncro in first, so I will stick with a split case transaxle.
The added bonus is that they are geared higher than any tunnel trans.
I have most of the parts I need to build a 356 shelf engine, so I am thinking that I may roll old school with 356 brakes, wheels and engine.
These two youngsters and their ride were part of that inspiration
_________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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The time had finally come to squirt some colour on it.
The paint colour was matched from the backside of the glove compartment door.
It is a little more vibrant that the interior (which I opted not to paint) but it is very close.
My personal preference is that if a vintage vehicle needs a respray, it should sport its original colour.
I am very pleased that this car was originally Agave, as it is one of my favorite oval colours.
That is a significant milestone accomplished.
Now time for reassembly.
_________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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Second Air Force Samba Member
Joined: April 10, 2017 Posts: 268 Location: Midwest
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:41 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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That's looking great!! We had an Agave '57 a long time ago--really one of my favorite colors on an oval! _________________ 1956 Standard Sedan |
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VeloMikey Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2012 Posts: 646 Location: So Cal
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Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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You have gone this far! Spray the Dash and jambs! It's looking great! _________________ '58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed
Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748 |
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scotty timmerman Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2010 Posts: 997 Location: gigharbor W.A
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Trevor P Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2004 Posts: 860 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
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Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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It’s looking great Keith. Glad that sunroof section found a deserving home (I knew it would with you)
Can’t wait to see your smiling face behind the wheel in the near future! _________________ 53 Canadian standard oval
56 Wolfsburg PG/SG
57 Oval, 2332 & Berg 5
70 911T
91 Westy |
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VolkFanJefe Samba Member
Joined: June 21, 2015 Posts: 40 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Nice work.... agave green is one of my favorites too. |
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aa390392 Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2007 Posts: 3602 Location: So.Cal
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Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Keep it up, keep showing the positive progress..
Thomas _________________ .
getting grumpy & less tolerant!
55 ragtop
56 delux sedan
56 Kabriolet |
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generations Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2008 Posts: 6 Location: salem oregon
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Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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love it! this helps motivate me to get to work on my own project _________________ Southend Polishing -- Custom Wheel Restoration from curb rash, clearcoat peel, or oxidation on all polished aluminum wheels..
We also can take care of manifolds, turbo piping, throttle bodies, stainless trim, and more... Inquire within -- located in Salem Oregon |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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After a lengthy hiatus, I am back at assembly of the oval.
The springplates were corroded onto the splines and gave me a devil of a time to get them off.
Finally wound up chunking them off.
I have installed adjustable springplates, as I want to drop the rear, maybe an inch or so, just to get a little bit of negative camber and lose the fender gap. If I don't like them, once I test drive, I'll take the cutting torch to the inner splines and get them hot enough to free the torsion bars and run stock springplates.
So now the 55 transaxle is installed, springplates, rear brakes, brake lines, master cylinder and pedal assembly.
Chrome trim strips and outer door handles installed
Started sorting through the ragtop parts on the weekend and did a dry fit.
All worked out well.
_________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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Major Woody Samba Enigma
Joined: December 04, 2002 Posts: 9010 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Looks great. I agree with you on the suspension height on on most of the minor mods you made. Well done. |
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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I have been stalled on the progress of the oval. Mostly because I am concerned about the installation the headliner without screwing up a $300 item.
I have an engine built and all the parts to finish, just need to dig around for some inspiration to make it to the finish line
This winter. I promise!
_________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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joey1320 Samba Member
Joined: September 12, 2006 Posts: 2325 Location: Cleveland, OH
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Riff Raff Shivering Sambian
Joined: October 25, 2004 Posts: 3096 Location: Alberta
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Dug around in the both the basement and attic of my soul and found some previously overlooked motivation.
Somehow, the 59 Kombi I got in 2018 (from Treevo, who incidentally supplied me with the ragtop for the oval) made it to the top of my list last winter.
Six or seven hundred hours later, I got it across the finish line!
Was that just an excuse not to work on the oval?
I don't know. I know buses better than ovals, so that may had some bearing on my priorities.
Regardless, this oval has been an Albatross around my neck for the last 7 years or more.
I posted locally, lamenting having an unfinished oval project, and wondering where to find the inspiration to get it over the finish line and was surprised to see the number of guys who have an unfinished oval project and are desperately searching for the same motivation i am looking for to get their projects moving forward again.
Misery loves company I guess.
Anyhow, my good brother Fred managed to engineer a way to get me re motivated, so I am back at it after a four? year hiatus.
I'm appropriately embarrassed.
Found a guy right close to the shop to do my headliner.
I am gratified that I got a professional to do the headliner install and that may just have me over the hump.
Delivered the oval to Kongkeo - he does mostly airplanes, but does old car headliners and all kinds of other upholstery as well.
Fitting the door panels that I have. I really want Brick Red door cards, but the really nice set that I have turned out to be for ribbed doors, so no go on the late oval.
I'll run these for the time being.
I'll see if Kongkeo can scare up some proper coloured vinyl and, if so, I'll fab my own.
I started fitting the carpet in the rear. Odd that the pieces that fit over the rear wells are not shaped very well for where they go. I had to modify a little, but kinda used to having to modify aftermarket parts to make them work.
The headliner looks way lighter in this pic than it actually is.
Kongkeo is still working on getting the headliner properly installed on the rag mechanism, so next week I hope to do the final install/adjustment of the rag, complete the carpet install and get seats in it.
I picked up set of Mexican running boards at the Great Canadian a few years ago. These are way more robust that any aftermarket ones available.
When I fit them though, they have a much different profile than the Oval ones would have had, so they did not mate up with the oval fenders very well.
I had to cut a wdge shaped piece of body metal and insert that in the running boards to improve the profile. About 1.5 cm added to the outside of the running board.
Much better profile now.
I'll use the rubber and the chrome trim from the aftermarket running boards and toss the thin gauge metal in the bin
Then glass, electrical, fuel system ..........
Hope the motivation continues for a while yet! _________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge
- Daniel Boorstin |
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finster Samba Member
Joined: May 26, 2012 Posts: 7839 Location: north o' the border
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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nice! great colour scheme too _________________ "we're here on Earth to fart around" kurt vonnegut
nothing lasts, nothing is finished, and nothing is perfect... |
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VW_Jimbo Samba Member
Joined: May 22, 2016 Posts: 9880 Location: Huntington Beach, CA
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Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Resurrection of a 57 deLuxe |
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Very nice! Good to see some progress. Keep it going! _________________ Jimbo
There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!
TDCTDI wrote: |
Basically, a whole bunch of fuckery to achieve a look. |
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
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