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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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you are moving in the right direction. Send the injectors off for cleaning - either Cruzin Performance or Witch Hunter. Replace the injector seals. Check the CSV to be sure it doesn't leak. Replace the fuel lines at the same time, and blow the rails out into a towel to be sure they don't have debris in them to mess up the cleaned injectors. Use a towel so you don't make a mist of gasoline and air. You can also see what comes out. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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WESTYJACK Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2017 Posts: 266 Location: LAVAL,QC CANADA
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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The pump run because of the leaky injector
can't make a good pressure on the rail _________________ VW bus type 2 1978 transplant engine 1975 1800cc fuel injection |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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WESTYJACK Samba Member
Joined: February 21, 2017 Posts: 266 Location: LAVAL,QC CANADA
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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your right
so, 3 posibility
ignition key problem (suppose to pump in crank position)
dual relay defect
ECM _________________ VW bus type 2 1978 transplant engine 1975 1800cc fuel injection |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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you are aware that the gas in the oil will dissolve most of the sealants between the case halves making it necessary to split the case and reseal the engine. Hope you drained that oil and gas out, and disconnected the pump until you find out what is wrong using a test light or meter.
9ft lbs max if you pull the strainer which you don't need to do on a T4 engine to drain the oil. I'd even pour a quart thru while the drain is out to flush anything residual out. Change the filter too. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2017 Posts: 20 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:52 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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SGKent wrote: |
you are aware that the gas in the oil will dissolve most of the sealants between the case halves making it necessary to split the case and reseal the engine. Hope you drained that oil and gas out, and disconnected the pump until you find out what is wrong using a test light or meter.
9ft lbs max if you pull the strainer which you don't need to do on a T4 engine to drain the oil. I'd even pour a quart thru while the drain is out to flush anything residual out. Change the filter too. |
I will relay that to my mechanic. It's in his hands now. I actually jotted down most of your guys' comments and gave it to him to look over. I will call him tomorrow and tell him to drain the gas and oil.... I definitely don't have the money to rebuild the engine. That would really be unfortunate if it came to that, especially since the engine was rebuilt >18k miles ago |
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi Samba Member
Joined: December 28, 2017 Posts: 20 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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Well. Worst case scenario came to pass today. The engine will need a rebuild.
4 grand seems pretty steep to me...even though I'm fairly unfamiliar with these fuel injected engines. What I would love to do is do the work myself....or with someone that knows what they're doing. I know that's a long shot- No one likes to work for free. I'm just a poor college student and $4000 is totally unrealistic for me right now, especially because I just bought the bus for $4000. I am totally shocked/bummed. I had no idea I would be needing to do this, as the previous owner told me it was completely rebuilt 17k miles ago. I even drove the damn thing for at least 50 miles before I pulled the trigger with NO issues whatsoever. Funny how that works.
Suggestions, comments, insults are all welcome. Not really sure what to do at this point. |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:05 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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He lists a pair of rebuilt heads twice looks like to me. Anyone else see that? Also, were the valves adjusted before the compression test? _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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That's just pagination, Tom.
4K and 20 hours is pretty reasonable for that work but most importantly, you need to know the experience level of this shop,with Type 4 motors.
This is also a best case scenario, the bottom end work referenced could easily cost another 4K if needed. _________________ .ssS! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:35 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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Strategy. Find a decent T1 motor, put it in, and drive at 55 to get 75k miles of use. Take your time to build up your T4 motor with good parts. _________________ .ssS! |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8700 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:43 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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That price looks good to me. But, if it could be only a dropped seat, you may not need to replace cylinders and pistons, especially if they really only have 17K on them. Can't know until it is torn down. Maybe it can survive a bit longer with rebuilt heads? (Honestly, I wouldn't trust that bottom end either until the engine is opened up and checked. But I never trust anything on a 40-year-old vehicle.)
And a "decent" type 1 engine that I would trust to push a bus around aint exactly cheap either. How much would you expect to pay for a turn key type 1 with all the correct tins to make it work and last in a bus? I think $4000 is not out of line for a good type 1 either.
But, owning and driving an antique VW is still a good bit cheaper than many other 40-year-old classic vehicles. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3482 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:22 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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Abscate wrote: |
That's just pagination, Tom. |
Well it was just the pagination (Once again) Running away with me.....Temptations paraphrase. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:19 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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$500-1000 for a good running 1600 at a swap. The key is to drive it to match your budget, no 75 mph up the I5 _________________ .ssS! |
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danfromsyr Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004 Posts: 15144 Location: Syracuse, NY
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:31 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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ABScate..
add in ~$500 for the t-IV to T1 tin and engine mounting
plus labor costs as the Op isn't DIY yet. it's over $2k for a slower bandaid.
there isn't anything cheap in 'living the dream'
for reference to this thread the OPs post in another thread.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8658803&highlight=#8658803
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote: |
Just read this entire post and all replies. Damn did I learn a lot about my engine. I was just quoted $4000 to rebuild the top end of my FI type 4. Now that I know quality parts aren't even available- I won't be throwing my money away. Seems to me the best options now are (obviously) pay Jake 25k to do it right, throw a type 1 in there and rebuild it every 50k miles, or do a subie conversion.
As a poor college kid who just paid $4500 for the bus, I think I'm shit outta luck. The PO told me that the motor had been rebuilt 17k miles ago. I believed him based on me driving it for about 50 miles before pulling the trigger. Funny how things end up. I think I'll be exiting the VW community until I have real money. Or I win the lottery.
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Abscate wrote: |
These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:40 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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the question in my mind is whose heads is the shop using? A set of Len Hoffman heads, which is what I would use is $1500.
I am a little concerned that a shop would propose to replace the cylinders, and rebuild the heads but not split the case. What we could have here is a $4K 10,000 mile motor. What is needed is a $4K - $5K 100,000 mile motor. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:45 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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Drain and change oil,run engine at idle for a few minutes and drain and refill it again,repair the fuel pump running when key off,and then drive the bus,then if there is any problems have it checked again,You may get lucky.worth a try.
If the shop is not doing the bottom end then I would assume that there was no damage done to the cam or crank from running with thinned out oil.If the shop is any good at all they would have checked it. _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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We have no compression in cylinder 3 Houston. This needs more than an oil change _________________ .ssS! |
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KentABQ Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016 Posts: 2406 Location: Albuquerque NM
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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When I had zero compression in #2, Robbie said to check if I reinstalled the push rod wrong. Guess I did, since it went up to 120 after correcting it.
But even if you get the compression up in #3, there's still three other low numbers. Yup, time to bite the bullet and get it fixed.
Incidentally, I saw the mechanic only charged $65 to do the compression check and to chase the threads in a spark plug hole. The mechanic I take my SUV to charges $99 to open the hood, and then starts adding $105 labor hours on from there. _________________ -Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
---williamM |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: Re: SOS |
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Yes 0 compression on # 4 is a concern.as for the other low numbers,I would expect to see them with a engine running diluted oil,washing down the cylinder walls,there is no indication that the oil was changed before doing the compression test,which makes me question all the numbers.
What is there to lose by trying it,$40.00 bucks for oil and a little time.
If repairing the FI is not cost efficient then they would go with DUAL CARBS.this shakes my confidence in the shop.Tack another $1500 onto the bill for carbs and linkage plus labour,and the time they spend checking the FI, _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22670 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: Re: SOS |
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Quote: |
If repairing the FI is not cost efficient then they would go with DUAL CARBS.this shakes my confidence in the shop |
I lost that in all the other chaff. Spot on.
You want to build up a good FIJ system on these cars for long life and runnability. At least they didn't charge $300 for 'disposal of FIJ components' _________________ .ssS! |
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