Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
SOS
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 28113
Location: Nor Cal
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

you are moving in the right direction. Send the injectors off for cleaning - either Cruzin Performance or Witch Hunter. Replace the injector seals. Check the CSV to be sure it doesn't leak. Replace the fuel lines at the same time, and blow the rails out into a towel to be sure they don't have debris in them to mess up the cleaned injectors. Use a towel so you don't make a mist of gasoline and air. You can also see what comes out.
_________________
*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing it right.

* VW Buses and VW cars share many of the same systems but if you haven't owned a bus and maintained it for awhile, you really don't know how different it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
WESTYJACK
Samba Member


Joined: February 21, 2017
Posts: 107
Location: LAVAL,QC CANADA
WESTYJACK is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

The pump run because of the leaky injector
can't make a good pressure on the rail
_________________
VW bus type 2 1978 transplant engine 1975 1800cc fuel injection
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lil-jinx Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1033
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
lil-jinx is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

WESTYJACK wrote:
The pump run because of the leaky injector
can't make a good pressure on the rail


Yes,but the pump was running with the ignition turned off,
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
WESTYJACK
Samba Member


Joined: February 21, 2017
Posts: 107
Location: LAVAL,QC CANADA
WESTYJACK is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

your right
so, 3 posibility
ignition key problem (suppose to pump in crank position)
dual relay defect
ECM
_________________
VW bus type 2 1978 transplant engine 1975 1800cc fuel injection
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 28113
Location: Nor Cal
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

you are aware that the gas in the oil will dissolve most of the sealants between the case halves making it necessary to split the case and reseal the engine. Hope you drained that oil and gas out, and disconnected the pump until you find out what is wrong using a test light or meter.

9ft lbs max if you pull the strainer which you don't need to do on a T4 engine to drain the oil. I'd even pour a quart thru while the drain is out to flush anything residual out. Change the filter too.
_________________
*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing it right.

* VW Buses and VW cars share many of the same systems but if you haven't owned a bus and maintained it for awhile, you really don't know how different it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
you are aware that the gas in the oil will dissolve most of the sealants between the case halves making it necessary to split the case and reseal the engine. Hope you drained that oil and gas out, and disconnected the pump until you find out what is wrong using a test light or meter.

9ft lbs max if you pull the strainer which you don't need to do on a T4 engine to drain the oil. I'd even pour a quart thru while the drain is out to flush anything residual out. Change the filter too.


I will relay that to my mechanic. It's in his hands now. I actually jotted down most of your guys' comments and gave it to him to look over. I will call him tomorrow and tell him to drain the gas and oil.... I definitely don't have the money to rebuild the engine. That would really be unfortunate if it came to that, especially since the engine was rebuilt >18k miles ago Brick wall
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
Samba Member


Joined: December 28, 2017
Posts: 19
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Well. Worst case scenario came to pass today. The engine will need a rebuild.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


4 grand seems pretty steep to me...even though I'm fairly unfamiliar with these fuel injected engines. What I would love to do is do the work myself....or with someone that knows what they're doing. I know that's a long shot- No one likes to work for free. I'm just a poor college student and $4000 is totally unrealistic for me right now, especially because I just bought the bus for $4000. I am totally shocked/bummed. I had no idea I would be needing to do this, as the previous owner told me it was completely rebuilt 17k miles ago. I even drove the damn thing for at least 50 miles before I pulled the trigger with NO issues whatsoever. Funny how that works.

Suggestions, comments, insults are all welcome. Not really sure what to do at this point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TomWesty
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 2528
Location: Wyoming,USA
TomWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

He lists a pair of rebuilt heads twice looks like to me. Anyone else see that? Also, were the valves adjusted before the compression test?
_________________
If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 7935
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

That's just pagination, Tom.

4K and 20 hours is pretty reasonable for that work but most importantly, you need to know the experience level of this shop,with Type 4 motors.

This is also a best case scenario, the bottom end work referenced could easily cost another 4K if needed.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 7935
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:35 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Strategy. Find a decent T1 motor, put it in, and drive at 55 to get 75k miles of use. Take your time to build up your T4 motor with good parts.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Q-Dog
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 6073
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
Q-Dog is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:43 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

That price looks good to me. But, if it could be only a dropped seat, you may not need to replace cylinders and pistons, especially if they really only have 17K on them. Can't know until it is torn down. Maybe it can survive a bit longer with rebuilt heads? (Honestly, I wouldn't trust that bottom end either until the engine is opened up and checked. But I never trust anything on a 40-year-old vehicle.) Wink

And a "decent" type 1 engine that I would trust to push a bus around aint exactly cheap either. How much would you expect to pay for a turn key type 1 with all the correct tins to make it work and last in a bus? I think $4000 is not out of line for a good type 1 either.

But, owning and driving an antique VW is still a good bit cheaper than many other 40-year-old classic vehicles.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
TomWesty
Samba Member


Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 2528
Location: Wyoming,USA
TomWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
That's just pagination, Tom.
Well it was just the pagination (Once again) Running away with me.....Temptations paraphrase.
_________________
If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 7935
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

$500-1000 for a good running 1600 at a swap. The key is to drive it to match your budget, no 75 mph up the I5
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 10691
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

ABScate..
add in ~$500 for the t-IV to T1 tin and engine mounting
plus labor costs as the Op isn't DIY yet. it's over $2k for a slower bandaid.

there isn't anything cheap in 'living the dream'


for reference to this thread the OPs post in another thread.


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8658803&highlight=#8658803
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote:
Just read this entire post and all replies. Damn did I learn a lot about my engine. I was just quoted $4000 to rebuild the top end of my FI type 4. Now that I know quality parts aren't even available- I won't be throwing my money away. Seems to me the best options now are (obviously) pay Jake 25k to do it right, throw a type 1 in there and rebuild it every 50k miles, or do a subie conversion.

As a poor college kid who just paid $4500 for the bus, I think I'm shit outta luck. The PO told me that the motor had been rebuilt 17k miles ago. I believed him based on me driving it for about 50 miles before pulling the trigger. Funny how things end up. I think I'll be exiting the VW community until I have real money. Or I win the lottery.

Sad

_________________
Vanagon List Archives
The only cheap thing in a classic VW sits behind the steering wheel
THE List ala Sanchius
syncroserge wrote:
The way these vans have shaped and enriched our family life would make one believe these darn things have a soul Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 28113
Location: Nor Cal
SGKent is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

the question in my mind is whose heads is the shop using? A set of Len Hoffman heads, which is what I would use is $1500.

I am a little concerned that a shop would propose to replace the cylinders, and rebuild the heads but not split the case. What we could have here is a $4K 10,000 mile motor. What is needed is a $4K - $5K 100,000 mile motor.
_________________
*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing it right.

* VW Buses and VW cars share many of the same systems but if you haven't owned a bus and maintained it for awhile, you really don't know how different it is.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lil-jinx Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1033
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
lil-jinx is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Drain and change oil,run engine at idle for a few minutes and drain and refill it again,repair the fuel pump running when key off,and then drive the bus,then if there is any problems have it checked again,You may get lucky.worth a try.
If the shop is not doing the bottom end then I would assume that there was no damage done to the cam or crank from running with thinned out oil.If the shop is any good at all they would have checked it.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 7935
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

We have no compression in cylinder 3 Houston. This needs more than an oil change
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
KentPS Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 1246
Location: Palm Springs, CA #45Exit
KentPS is online now 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

When I had zero compression in #2, Robbie said to check if I reinstalled the push rod wrong. Guess I did, since it went up to 120 after correcting it.

But even if you get the compression up in #3, there's still three other low numbers. Yup, time to bite the bullet and get it fixed.

Incidentally, I saw the mechanic only charged $65 to do the compression check and to chase the threads in a spark plug hole. The mechanic I take my SUV to charges $99 to open the hood, and then starts adding $105 labor hours on from there. Surprised
_________________
-Kent-

1976 Riviera, my 1.7l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
--> Whatever you do, have fun doing it! Smile

WildIdea wrote:
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. Its.... like driving a celebration!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lil-jinx Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1033
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
lil-jinx is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Yes 0 compression on # 4 is a concern.as for the other low numbers,I would expect to see them with a engine running diluted oil,washing down the cylinder walls,there is no indication that the oil was changed before doing the compression test,which makes me question all the numbers.
What is there to lose by trying it,$40.00 bucks for oil and a little time.
If repairing the FI is not cost efficient then they would go with DUAL CARBS.this shakes my confidence in the shop.Tack another $1500 onto the bill for carbs and linkage plus labour,and the time they spend checking the FI,
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 7935
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Quote:
If repairing the FI is not cost efficient then they would go with DUAL CARBS.this shakes my confidence in the shop


I lost that in all the other chaff. Spot on.

You want to build up a good FIJ system on these cars for long life and runnability. At least they didn't charge $300 for 'disposal of FIJ components'
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB