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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Lets look at the best case scenario here. The fuel tank is probably full of crappy fuel which has done two things, it has gummed up the injectors and gummed up the valve stems and now the injectors aren't sealing and one of the valves is hanging open. Change your oil to a cheap 15w50 synthetic (NAPA has one) and dump a bottle of quality FI cleaner into the fuel tank, also dump a quart of MMO, 2-cycle oil, or synthetic motor oil into a fairly full tank of fuel. Also pull the lid off the AFM and see if the vane is being held open or what else could be allowing the fuel pump relay points in the AFM to be staying closed. Run your engine for at least 30 minutes and get back to us, if you haven't solved the problem with the FP running disconnect the negative battery cable after shutdown. In cold weather premixing the fuel additives into a gallon of gas will help to get them to disperse in the tank.

With that thick of an oil you may well need to heat your crankcase somehow to get the engine warm enough to crank readily.
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

At this point- over the past 24 hours I have received so much input and help from so many people. I feel confident in rebuilding the motor myself. I am going to buy Jake Rabys DVD, and study the hell out of my Bentley/Haynes/Muir manuals and books.

I received some awesome advice from the Facebook group "BayPride Forum":

https://www.facebook.com/groups/baypride/permalink...nt_mention

I even had a guy call me for 3 hours telling me how I should go about the rebuild. At this point though, after reading all your guys' replies...I'm not sure that's even going to be required. The engine was running great when I loaded it onto the flat bed to tow to Dave's shop. The guy that talked to me on the phone said it's impossible for my engine to have 80/80/70/0 compression and have it running as well as it is. I am going to start my changing the oil, and draining the gas, and take your guys advice and go from there.

Information overload, sorry if I'm not making a ton of sense. Literally spent the last 16+ hours on what I should do.

Thank you all for helping out a complete novice. I appreciate it more than you know.
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
Strategy. Find a decent T1 motor, put it in, and drive at 55 to get 75k miles of use. Take your time to build up your T4 motor with good parts.


Located a type 4 with carb setup for $700. Thinking of doing exactly that, building it up when I can afford AMC heads, etc.
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
the question in my mind is whose heads is the shop using? A set of Len Hoffman heads, which is what I would use is $1500.

I am a little concerned that a shop would propose to replace the cylinders, and rebuild the heads but not split the case. What we could have here is a $4K 10,000 mile motor. What is needed is a $4K - $5K 100,000 mile motor.


Apparently they are doing them themselves....that coupled with the dual carb conversion suggestion, I don't trust this guy anymore. I feel he was lazy in his diagnosis, and couldn't check the AFM and all these other things I specifically asked him too. Pissed off that he didn't change my oil, that shit is still in there eating away at my seals.

$4k 100,000 mile motor?! Would be a dream come true.
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

lil-jinx wrote:
Drain and change oil,run engine at idle for a few minutes and drain and refill it again,repair the fuel pump running when key off,and then drive the bus,then if there is any problems have it checked again,You may get lucky.worth a try.
If the shop is not doing the bottom end then I would assume that there was no damage done to the cam or crank from running with thinned out oil.If the shop is any good at all they would have checked it.


Repair the fuel pump running?

The shop was lazy, I handed him an entire page of your guys' comments and pointers. Literally all he did was a compression test and determined it needs a rebuild. No further looking at the pump, adjusting valves, draining oil, etc.

I am really upset, as there really isn't another VW guru close to me.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

there are a couple options - If the bus isn't needed right away, Colin will be coming west this summer and a couple days with him would probably solve most of the issues.

Or you can read the books and look at the DVD for general information, and then pick a mentor here, and they can walk you thru step by step. I would suggest not listening to 1000 cooks on how to cook a cake or you will end up with one weird mess. Pick one mentor who knows everyone else and work with them. They'll know when it is time to ask the rest of the group a question. Buses really aren't all that hard, it just takes tools and patience. Making photos or being able to video conference helps too.

Where is the bus now?
_________________
Godspeed to all who undertake a journey with a VW Bus.

*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing those right.

* VW Buses and VW cars share many of the same systems but if you haven't owned a bus and maintained it for awhile, you really don't know how different it is.

Bus Engine Cooling Issues? https://kentcomputer.com/77VW/BusEngineCooling.pdf
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
there are a couple options - If the bus isn't needed right away, Colin will be coming west this summer and a couple days with him would probably solve most of the issues.

Or you can read the books and look at the DVD for general information, and then pick a mentor here, and they can walk you thru step by step. I would suggest not listening to 1000 cooks on how to cook a cake or you will end up with one weird mess. Pick one mentor who knows everyone else and work with them. They'll know when it is time to ask the rest of the group a question. Buses really aren't all that hard, it just takes tools and patience. Making photos or being able to video conference helps too.

Where is the bus now?


The bus is not needed right away. That would be amazing, and really what I need. An expert that will help and teach me. I know I'm pretty useless right now, but I guess we all start somewhere. No matter what it cost to pay him, it would be priceless to me if I could learn all about my bus.

And yeah...I could very well attempt to do this myself. A few have reached out to me saying they completed a rebuild without any prior experience, and just used the video/manuals. I would love to go with option #1, if he's available/willing.

The bus is still at my mechanics, I will be flat bedding her back home to Alpine, UT tomorrow. (20 minutes south of Salt Lake City)

Appreciate your help Kent- you've been extremely helpful.
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SGKent Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Colin is Amskeptic. PM or e-mail him and seek out his advice as to what he might suggest time wise. My thinking is that you should try to catch him heading west so he can look the bus over, do some testing then give you a list of the things you need, and catch him again looping thru NV and UT a month later or so headed back east so you have whatever parts he needs.
_________________
Godspeed to all who undertake a journey with a VW Bus.

*You can do it right the first time, or do it over, the choice is yours. It is a free country. As to brakes, steering, tires, axles etc. - you may only get one chance at doing those right.

* VW Buses and VW cars share many of the same systems but if you haven't owned a bus and maintained it for awhile, you really don't know how different it is.

Bus Engine Cooling Issues? https://kentcomputer.com/77VW/BusEngineCooling.pdf
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Colin is Amskeptic. PM or e-mail him and seek out his advice as to what he might suggest time wise. My thinking is that you should try to catch him heading west so he can look the bus over, do some testing then give you a list of the things you need, and catch him again looping thru NV and UT a month later or so headed back east so you have whatever parts he needs.


That would be perfect. PM'd him a few days ago, no response yet. If he isn't super active on here, would an email be better?
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Amskeptic
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote:
SGKent wrote:
Colin is Amskeptic. PM or e-mail him and seek out his advice as to what he might suggest time wise. My thinking is that you should try to catch him heading west so he can look the bus over, do some testing then give you a list of the things you need, and catch him again looping thru NV and UT a month later or so headed back east so you have whatever parts he needs.


That would be perfect. PM'd him a few days ago, no response yet. If he isn't super active on here, would an email be better?



Beg your pardon?
I sent an email response to your inquiry exactly 58 minutes after you wrote it!
Subject: Re: Possible help?
Date: Jan 13, 2018 2:06 PM

Please respond via email
<[email protected]>
and give me as thorough a rundown as possible of your current dilemma, steps taken, monies spent, current results.
We shall edit the information overload down to a workable plan.
Colin
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MichaIN
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:57 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Hello!

Just a small hint about one of the root problems:

I had the same problem with a fuel pump sometimes still running after ignition was switched off.
It was caused by the double relay (left half, which is controlling the fuel pump), as the contact was stucked a little bit. A small knock at the housing helped in this case to switch off the pump.

Just replaced the relay, everything was fine then. There are a lot of Bosch double relays which are compatible, most of the BOSCH 0 332 514 1xx will work.

Stucked air flow meter (AFM) is the second chance, as it will not return to zero position (in which the fuel pump is switched off). Can be easily checked by removing the black plastic top of the AFM, or dismounting the air cleaner and check the paddle itself.
This will also cause the engine not to run properly on idle.

Bye,
Michael
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

MichaIN wrote:
Hello!

Just a small hint about one of the root problems:

I had the same problem with a fuel pump sometimes still running after ignition was switched off.
It was caused by the double relay (left half, which is controlling the fuel pump), as the contact was stucked a little bit. A small knock at the housing helped in this case to switch off the pump.

Just replaced the relay, everything was fine then. There are a lot of Bosch double relays which are compatible, most of the BOSCH 0 332 514 1xx will work.

Stucked air flow meter (AFM) is the second chance, as it will not return to zero position (in which the fuel pump is switched off). Can be easily checked by removing the black plastic top of the AFM, or dismounting the air cleaner and check the paddle itself.
This will also cause the engine not to run properly on idle.

Bye,
Michael


Michael,

Thanks for chiming in! As I just told Colin in an email, I am now having issues with the idol. I'm thinking my AFM is definitely the issue here. (Probably one of many) I will search the forum here and try to find where it is located.

Braden
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote:


Thanks for chiming in! As I just told Colin in an email, I am now having issues with the idol. I'm thinking my AFM is definitely the issue here. (Probably one of many) I will search the forum here and try to find where it is located.

Braden


Idols require ritual sacrifice. Sometimes beating on the car body with a sledge will do if you have no goat available.
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TravelingInAFriedOutKombi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote:


Thanks for chiming in! As I just told Colin in an email, I am now having issues with the idol. I'm thinking my AFM is definitely the issue here. (Probably one of many) I will search the forum here and try to find where it is located.

Braden


Idols require ritual sacrifice. Sometimes beating on the car body with a sledge will do if you have no goat available.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Now THERE's a fix I could handle!
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:35 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
TravelingInAFriedOutKombi wrote:


Thanks for chiming in! As I just told Colin in an email, I am now having issues with the idol. I'm thinking my AFM is definitely the issue here. (Probably one of many) I will search the forum here and try to find where it is located.

Braden


Idols require ritual sacrifice. Sometimes beating on the car body with a sledge will do if you have no goat available.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Now THERE's a fix I could handle!


Just make sure it's German goats. Chinese goats end up as kosher chicken in Walmart.
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MichaIN
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

Hello!

I don't really get this idol stuff...

But back to the fuel pump, I should have been more specific.

Basically the fuel pump is only running with
1) starter engaged (= cranking the engine)
OR
2) ignition on AND engine running

In both cases the fuel pump will be powered via the double relay.

So you can easily check:

a) fuel pump running all the time, independently of ignition on/off -> double relay itself
b) fuel pump running with ignition on only, even if the engine's not running -> contact in AFM (paddle not fully returning)

( c) there is a very small chance there is some power on the starter by some weird electrical modifications - perhaps not enough to engage the starter but to drive the relay. Just measure the voltage at the starter solenoid. Should be 0V when not starting).


For problem b) just check the AFMs paddle for easy movement by moving it by hand. It should move very soft and properly return to it's zero position.
The black cover on top is glued in, but might be easy to remove anyway with e.g. a small knife. This can be done while it's installed, easy to reach through the upper service opening in the luggage area.
In this case you can move the arm inside for chekcing. Otherwise remove the air cleaner filter housing to reach the paddle through the intake.

Don't mess around with any engine idling problems before you check out about this fuel pump issue.

Bye,
Michael
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

MichaIN wrote:
Hello!

I don't really get this idol stuff...


* An IDOL is an object of worship
* An engine IDLES when it is running but not under load

Smile
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:16 am    Post subject: Re: SOS Reply with quote

When you get a VW engine to idle, you sacrifice to an idol, I live an idyllic life.

That and you get a free pair of tinsnips.
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