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WHY? Come on!
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16CVs
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Joined: February 22, 2004
Posts: 3038
Location: Redwood City, California
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 5:57 pm    Post subject: WHY? Come on! Reply with quote

I just got back from looking at a 90 L model Van with a rod sticking out of the case. Original owner with 275K on clock. The owner has had it serviced at a shop in town which closed about two years ago because they could rent the property and have no headaches of automotive repair.

My rant here is that she has $10K in receipts over about 5 years and the deck lid is held up with a broom handle, come on struts are $50.00. It has original fuel lines and all the original plastic in the engine compartment. It is my opinion that WBXs chuck rods because when they were rebuilt (this one was about 75K ago) the rebuilder decided to re use the TTY bolts.

She has receipts for Brakes and Tie rods (Easy quick) But the brake fluid is black. It look like the Cv's have never touched. If this van didn't chuck a rod it would have burned to the ground when the fuel line let loose.

This lady in her mid eighties loved this van and was almost in tears. She told me stories of going to watch the flowers come in and numerous week long trips in the summer in between her teaching gig. She's been quoted $5k to rebuild the engine and there's no mention of SS pipes or gas line replacement.

She has come to the realization that the best thing to do is to sell it. It has 30 years of dents and bruises and failing clear coat from repairs ( This is a white van that never had clear coat) A good dent on the left behind the door and dented sliding door and fist sized punch on the lower front grille.

Her friends are telling her its worth $3 Grand. I made her an offer and she is considering it.

I blame this on incompetent and poorly trained mechanics. She said she always took her mechanics recommendations as she wanted her van reliable. So when wrenching look out for your customers best interests.

If you see someone driving a Vanagon, engage them and spend a few minutes looking at their van. If you're not mechanical this may not be the vehicle for you.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
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Location: Brookeville, MD
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject: Re: WHY ? Come on ! Reply with quote

I hear you Stacy. My Ď87 westy that you saw me with in Baja I bought in Denver in 2008 from a lady who always had it serviced at a respected Vanagon place in Denver. They said it was good to go cross country. When I looked at the engine the fuel lines were weeping gas. Some shops just do not pay attention to even the gross details.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: WHY ? Come on ! Reply with quote

Sadly this is pretty normal. When I bought my Thing 10 years back it still had all the original vacuum lines, which were no more than linear sieves, while the timing was 12į retarded because they had used the book timing spec while the vacuum retard can was bad. There were lots of other problems as well. There were piles of receipts showing the work that had been done, with continuous complains about poor running, all the work had been done at a leading classic VW shop. Notably all for CV joints were right at the point of falling off.

I spent about two hours fixing little stuff before hitting to road for home 1000 miles away and did additional work at every gas stop. Ran pretty well by the time I got home.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: WHY ? Come on ! Reply with quote

^^^ You were Muldoon for the trip home.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
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a2wolfsburggli
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Joined: October 30, 2018
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Location: WI
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: WHY ? Come on ! Reply with quote

I will submit this as just another example of why "people," think these vans are expensive to own and constant headaches.

You know why...because they ARE if you you're not at least a shade tree mechanic capable of doing routine maintenance that any 30yo classic car requires. That includes the little things.

Flushing the brake fluid is NOT something you should be relying on "your mechanic," to do. If you're uncomfortable with that level of service, perhaps you'd be more comfortable in a $30k modern mid sized motorhome?

The issue is NOT the mechanics the "I don't wrench on cars," crowd rely on. They're paid to do specific jobs not full inspection of every system or component or fluid up stream of that job. They get their $$$ for a 30min pad swap the customer asked them to do when the brakes started squealing. Then they move on to the next job. That's their business, I don't fault them.

Compared to an enthusiast or true old school VW shop, properly removing, turning or replacing the rotor, repacking the bearings, and doing a quick bleed...which is what us enthusiasts would do. (as well as slather the shit out of the pads with brake grease to avoid squeal in 2K miles of dusty back roads where we inevitably love to camp.)

I've put $2000 worth of parts on my Westy since purchase in Oct 2018. Almost all of it maintenance. Brakes all around, shocks, Marco injectors, cap, rotor, plugs, wires, fuel lines, clutch cylinders, blower motor and flaps....etc, etc, etc.)

I KNEW it would require that level of work when I bought it. I bought it from someone that was emptying their wallet into it and not getting anywhere as they're just not mechanically inclined nor a 20+ VW/Audi enthusiast.

That same amount of work would have cost a "non wrencher," at least $5-6K in labor alone plus the markup of the shops list price for the parts. Seriously they would have been $10K into the work that I've put $2k into.

#EndRant lol.
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Current: '87 Westfalia | '09 CC 3.6L 4motion "R36 wannabe"

Past: '02 Audi TT "ALMS Edition" | '84 Jetta GLI with Autotech Supercharger | '89 Helios Jetta GLI 16v's (x2) | '95.5 URS6 | and the list goes on.


Last edited by a2wolfsburggli on Thu May 07, 2020 8:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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HeinleinTrooper
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Joined: January 23, 2020
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: WHY ? Come on ! Reply with quote

Point well taken. I'm new to my Vanagon--just purchased in March. From reading this forum, I required the seller to replace all fuel lines as well as to install SS coolant pipes, in addition to some other things. I knew Vanagons would be more of a hobby and lifestyle than a mere vehicle. We had a VW Bus and Bug around when I grew up, so I remember they were serviced every weekend at some level. When I decided to buy a Vanagon, months before I found one I liked, I bought a new full tool set, Bentley, and Haynes manual just to keep in the Vanagon. Right now I am also carrying in it three new belts and a new Bosch fuel pump just in case. I'm heading a bit north tomorrow after an early work day to a shop which will teach me how to do the work myself (Reference Automotive in Bellingham). I love that business model.
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: WHY ? Come on ! Reply with quote

HeinleinTrooper wrote:
Point well taken. I'm new to my Vanagon--just purchased in March. From reading this forum, I required the seller to replace all fuel lines as well as to install SS coolant pipes, in addition to some other things. I knew Vanagons would be more of a hobby and lifestyle than a mere vehicle. We had a VW Bus and Bug around when I grew up, so I remember they were serviced every weekend at some level. When I decided to buy a Vanagon, months before I found one I liked, I bought a new full tool set, Bentley, and Haynes manual just to keep in the Vanagon. Right now I am also carrying in it three new belts and a new Bosch fuel pump just in case. I'm heading a bit north tomorrow after an early work day to a shop which will teach me how to do the work myself (Reference Automotive in Bellingham). I love that business model.


you're on the right track. as i keep saying, these are antique vehicles now and few shops have the time nor gumption to be up on all the foibles. whether you're into Model A Fords or Detroit muscle cars, the owner ends up being the most motivated mechanic to do the research and get it right.

trust no one and check your fuel lines you had replaced by the owner. make sure it is 30R9 rated hose, it is marked on the hose, and make sure they did the ENTIRE high pressure side including the nubs to the injectors. then back to the firewall nipple, which should be removed completely or replaced with a metal one. the splices between the fuel pump and nylon line should also be replaced. the nylon line is usually fine. i can just about promise you they did not replace all that.
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87 Westy, stock 2.1 w/ 4 spd ratty but reliable
89 Westy, stock 2.1 w/ 4 spd, fate unknown
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jlrftype7
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Joined: July 24, 2018
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: WHY? Come on! Reply with quote

I actually have a hard time getting people to buy new Hood Shocks on LR vehicles. I quote them several times a year and rarely get takers on replacing them. Tailgates are another matter, as the Customer tends to actually use it, and rarely opens their own hood..... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
I've actually had older customers tell me that keeping the hood up is our problem since they never open it.... Go figure... Razz Razz

The rest of your Rant IS sad indeed since a fire takes out any vehicle, regardless of how often it's been serviced. The brake fluid flush issue burns me as well since when I started in this business, everyone was drilled on yearly or bi-annual fluid flushes. Then, car manufs. started creeping up the flush interval to 4-5 years, and once that happened, it started to just not get done if the vehicles were being sold once they were out of the warranty period.
With newer braking systems, they've had to go back to doing the brake flush at least every 3 years or 45K miles since SO much of the ACCIDENT prevention software in ABS systems runs the heck out of the brakes without the customer ever knowing they were close to being in trouble; since corner braking or vector braking is happening behind the scenes , quietly.
All that valve and caliper activation requires fresh, good fluid to work correctly, and I think Lawyers more than Engineers pushed for the shorter flushing intervals since higher end vehicles are being warrantied past the 45K mark everywhere and no one wants a lawsuit.
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- also long gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle, my wife's first car= yep. still long gone....
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
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16CVs
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Joined: February 22, 2004
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Location: Redwood City, California
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: WHY? Come on! Reply with quote

Iíve found the perfect fix for dead struts. I grab the in the middle and put a bend in the shaft. Not too much and they will actually retract and hold the hood up. You have put a little pressure to close it but itís better then getting hit on the head when hood comes down.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: WHY? Come on! Reply with quote

Holding up a engine lid with my tools, 0.5 shop hours

+ $35 shop,supplies
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