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Spike0180 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015 Posts: 2269 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:05 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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guitarman63mm wrote: |
I will reiterate what was said before - do not prematurely split the case, you should be performing diagnostics on this motor first. Check the lifters, check the compression, possibly perform a leak-down test if you can - but unless there's something obviously beat on the bottom end, refreshing the heads/rings/seals should be the most you bother to do. The shortblock on a Type 4 is fairly robust, the heads are the weak spots.
Additionally, you said you had more time than money - performing a rebuild to factory standards will be $$$. |
x2
That tank is hard to tell. Look around the forums here, almost every restoration thread has some sort of way to clean out a gas tank. But some sort of acid and a chain or scrap screws and shake. Let it sit then shake and repeat. Then you'll need to check thickness of your metal. _________________ Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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That tanks looks pretty bad. To be sure, you'd need to either take it to a radiator shop to have it boiled out or mix some acid with water and let it soak in to remove the rust. Likely, the metal at the bottom is very thin now, even if it doesn't leak.
You can probably locate a good, original tank in much better condition in the Samba Classifieds or from a VW bus junk yard. The new tanks sold today can be hit and miss for quality and thickness of metal. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50350
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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guitarman63mm wrote: |
I will reiterate what was said before - do not prematurely split the case, you should be performing diagnostics on this motor first. Check the lifters, check the compression, possibly perform a leak-down test if you can - but unless there's something obviously beat on the bottom end, refreshing the heads/rings/seals should be the most you bother to do. The shortblock on a Type 4 is fairly robust, the heads are the weak spots.
Additionally, you said you had more time than money - performing a rebuild to factory standards will be $$$. |
^^^^^
Unless the cam looks bad or you want to upgrade to a better cam design, do not split the block, just do head work, rings, seals, have the lifters refaced if need be. You will want to pull the oil pump and replace the internal o-ring and check that the idler shaft is in place and well peened soit can't move out and hit the cam. |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Originally my thought was to only do a refresh on the engine. I was dissuaded on that idea in the engine thread I referenced, where some seemingly knowledgeable Type 4 folks advised against a refresh due to the Type 4 cam being the “Achilles Heel”.
Ahhh, I’m so confirmed on what to do. So many differing / conflicting opinions on this. Who do I listen to? I intend to inspect the cam / lifters before kit committing to a year down and full rebuild. I guess I’ll let the cam and lifter condition be my deciding factor.
As for the tank. I’m going to attempt to clean it up first but if I have any doubts I’ll just replace it with a repop or used.
Last edited by sunny74 on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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I think when you inspect the cam and lifters, it will give you better clarity on whether to split it or not. As mentioned, the type 4 engines are much more robust than the type 1 engines.
I had two different bug engines out for clean up with unknown mileage. Both ran perfectly fine but I hated not knowing the condition of the engines or quality of the last rebuild. I split the cases on both engines and found issues in both. One engine had worn through the babbitt material on the main bearings and were showing brass. I caught it just in time. The crank was still perfect and I was able to install new bearings with no crank machine work. The case didn't need a line bore either. It was a very low cost rebuild with just bearings, reground lifters rebuilt rods, seal kit and the cost of having the heads rebuilt. The biggest cost was my labor.
The second engine had clearly had a recent valve job. It was showing a weird grit on the sump plate. When I tore it down, it was also showing heavily worn bearings and had a lot of grit in the sump. No idea how the previous owner got it in there. The case required a line bore as well as the crank being turned. The heads were perfect and didn't require a rebuild.
Now, I drive both these VW's without any concern of engine issues. With as few miles as I put on them each year, both engines will last me till I sell them or croak. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:13 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Thanks for that Tcash. I thought my tank was roached. Then I looked at one in that thread that looked just like mine and is now spotless and like new. I'm going to follow their method and see what happens.
-Ty |
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curtp07 Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007 Posts: 874 Location: Mass
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Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:21 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Great find! Welcome. So many great guys here, take their advice, they invest a ton of time and effort into the VW community. _________________ Subaru |
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Quick update:
I got all of the loose rust and chunks of varnished fuel out of the tank. Then I added denatured alcohol and a chain and have been shaking it around every once in a while since this time yesterday to loosen more of the gunk.
Doing this fortunately but unfortunately exposed a pinhole leak in the tank. Because of this I am not going to mess around with trying to repair it any further.
Is there a good quality reproduction tank out there? I have read some of the reviews of the ones sold on some of the bus parts sites and they usually are not the greatest. I know someone mentioned possibly picking up a used tank but I hate to think of the shipping costs on something like that....then again, a web store will have to ship one too.
Any insight on a replacement?
Thanks in advance. |
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:28 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Fishing has kept me away from my bus project for the dog days of summer. Now that things are cooling down in WI. I have turned my focus back to the bus.
My fuel tank is toast. I noticed a couple of pinhole leaks when soaking it in restoration agents. I will not bother trying to repair it as I don't want future headaches related to a leaking fuel tank. I will order a new or look for a restored used tank.
I ordered and received my 3 Arm engine stand adapter from VW alley and got the engine transferred over to it. I also pulled two of the pushrods / tubes / lifters for a quick cam inspection. Any thoughts on the condition of the cam based on the pics?
I have also started prepping the engine bay for a repaint:
I'll be replacing the battery tray with a Klassic Fab piece or a NOS OEM
if I can find it
I picked up this Eastwood Surface Conditioning Tool and I'll use it to clean up any really rusty areas in the engine bay and other areas of the project. Its a pretty sweet tool for refinishing projects.
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:57 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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I've been working on removing the rotted out battery tray the last couple days. I've got most of the old material cut and grounded out.
I realized that there's a rust hole on the exterior that coincides with the seam of the tray. Before I install the new battery tray i'll need to address this hole.
I have welded before but have never welded any exterior body metal before. I understand its the same concept but I want the finish to look good. Also, this is kind of a strange area to have to patch being that there is a recess for the taillight etc.
Does anyone have any experience patching this area? Any tips?
Thanks.
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dwill49965 Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2005 Posts: 1396 Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:11 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Bus Depot has new gas tanks.
http://www.busdepot.com/211201075l _________________ Darryl
--------------
'78 Westy, Boston Bob built 2.0 L, FI, MSD 6A
Meyer wrote: |
Lastly, you just referred to US citizens as 'Americans'. Exactly what kind of Canadian are you? From what continent? |
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advCo Samba Member
Joined: May 27, 2017 Posts: 373 Location: Houston, TX
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:36 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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The rot along the battery tray seam appears to be pretty common. Are you going to grind out the rest of the lip from the OG battery tray? It may be a good idea because that seam is clearly not sealed any more and any moisture trapped between there and the body will continue to create problems.
My plan to tackle that area is to completely remove the OG tray, straighten, cut & repair the rotted area along the seam w/ an outer corner repair panel, and then weld in the battery tray and seam seal against the body. _________________ "He pulled the mirrors off his Cadillac ‘cause he doesn’t like it looking like he looks back"
'68/'70 Ghia Coupe Project
'70 Westy Project - Champagne I Wannabe
A bunch of vintage Japanese motorcycles
"Much ingenuity with a little money is vastly more profitable and amusing than much money without ingenuity." -A. Bennett |
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TDCTDI Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013 Posts: 12856 Location: North Carolina
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:58 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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HAH, that's a great idea! Someone in one of the forums was just whining about not being able to get their assembled engine off their bench. _________________ Everybody born before 1975 has a story, good, bad, or indifferent, about a VW.
GOFUNDYOURSELF, quit asking everyone to do it for you!
An air cooled VW will make you a hoarder.
Do something, anything, to your project every day, and you will eventually complete it. |
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Quote: |
The rot along the battery tray seam appears to be pretty common. Are you going to grind out the rest of the lip from the OG battery tray? It may be a good idea because that seam is clearly not sealed any more and any moisture trapped between there and the body will continue to create problems.
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Yes, I will be removing all of the original tray for that reason and for fitting the new one.
Quote: |
HAH, that's a great idea! Someone in one of the forums was just whining about not being able to get their assembled engine off their bench.
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I can't take credit for the ladder hoist as I saw it somewhere on here. It worked really well except the chain hoist I have is missing the handle and the release lever so I had to improvise.
Thanks, I did see that. I plan to pick one up somewhere along the line. Probably wait until I get a coupon or something.
I found "wrstp" rust repair threads and have been drooling and learning how to properly patch. I have a small area that needs to be patched in the drivers floor pan. I plan to practice on that before tackling any exterior stuff.
Here's a link: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:33 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Because my metal shaping skills are limited I'd like to get a hold of one of these repair panels. I have not been able to find them anywhere in the states without having to buy the whole rear corner up to the roof. I really only need the section below the taillight to repair the area I pictured earlier.
Does anyone know where I can get one in the states?
TIA
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babysnakes Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2008 Posts: 7107
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:23 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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Look through the classifieds, there are plenty of buses being parted out. Find one in a dry state and have them take a bunch of pictures. Good original metal beats most reproduction parts. |
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sunny74 Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2017 Posts: 41 Location: Wisconsin
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:26 am Post subject: Re: '74 Bay pulled out of the weeds |
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babysnakes wrote: |
Look through the classifieds, there are plenty of buses being parted out. Find one in a dry state and have them take a bunch of pictures. Good original metal beats most reproduction parts. |
Good call. I will do just that.
Thanks |
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