Syncro Trans Rebuild w/ Weddle R&P, Swepco 202

[Syncro Jael]

Just to make it easier to find how the last rebuild with the Weddle Ring & Pinion and using Swepco 202 is performing. It is also in Sodos post but I am going to keep the updates on this one for anyone interested.

FYI: 1987 Syncro Westfalia (6000lbs) EJ22 Subaru Engine. 215/75/15 tires. Stock gearing. Decoupler. Sport VC. It was originally built by AA transaxle and the ring & pinion failed with less than 30k miles. This transaxle was again rebuilt by Greg Sayers (Mr. Gas) in Colorado Springs. It has all aluminum cases. AA bearing retainer plate. Steel Caged Gear Idler Bearings. Oiling Plates. Stainless steel locker rod and anodized bushing. Stock gearing. New Weddle Ring & Pinion. It was also drilled and tapped for temperature sensor and Oil cooler return line. This transaxle has an external oil cooler and filtering system. It is using an inline Weddle 25 micron stainless steel filter, Weddle Pump, and a Magnom Mini magnetic filter. I also use rare earth magnets around the housing on the Weddle filter. The transaxle was put into service on Oct 10, 2016. Odometer reading 87,640. Oct 23, 2016 Swepco 202 replaced at 88,667 miles (Break in Gear Oil).

FIRST INSPECTION: BREAK IN GEAR OIL


Link




SECOND INSPECTION:

I now have about 4000 miles on my latest transaxle and wanted to document the filtering process again.

This filter cleaning and check has about 3000 miles since cleaned last. 1200 of those miles were just put on when taking a failed transaxle to Mr.Gas in Colorado Springs from here in Utah. With a little detour for adventures.

I was really concerned about what the filler hole magnet picked up last time for just being in the splash. It was much cleaner this time. I would like to see others install a filler bung magnet to see the results compared to mine. I don't believe anyone else is doing this as of yet.

Here is a clip of what all the filters captured:


Link


THIRD INSPECTION:

Here is documentation of my filter cleaning and check. This was done today Mar 24, 2017 @ 97,321 miles. Last checked @ 91,626 miles so this has 5,695 miles of use. It is much cleaner than the last check. I also wanted to document that I am running Swepco 202.

The bung magnet is being utilized in the filler hole. It still picks up some debris.

The photo with the PIN is showing all the swarf picked up by the filtering system. I run the pump and filter when the transaxle temps are above 100ºf. So my pump runs almost all the time.



Link


FOURTH INSPECTION:

Here is more documentation with another filter cleaning and check. Aug 14, 2017 @107,115 miles, 9,765 miles since the last check in March. The swarf was minimal again. Total miles on rebuild is: 19,475. No noises and the transaxle is still running Swepco 202. We put 3,552 miles on the van last week alone on a road trip. Still shifting great and running cool. I have never seen the transaxle over 160ºf even this summer.


Link



FIFTH INSPECTION:

Documentation of the filter cleaning. Jan 06, 2018 @ 117, 400 miles. 10,285 miles since last check. Still performing well with 29,760 miles on the rebuild and using a Weddle Ring & Pinion. Filler hole bung magnet was clean.


Link

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1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[Sodo]

Thx for the documentation SJ.

Filler bung magnet only contacts moving oil, prob not enough time to move the particles out of the oil in the short time the oil is near the magnet. Except it will purify every drip that sits on it overnight. The bung magnet is interesting, but the drain magnet is where the action is. No question the filler bung magnet has "ease of access".

Contrast the filler bung magnet placement to the drain bung magnet, that has a column of dirty oil above it all night. Metal is dropping down by gravity (all night long) so some of this metal reaches the magnet before the next time the oil is stirred. And the magnet can "draw" some of this metal off its vertical path ---> towards it, and perhaps holds it, so the oil it's drawing from is prob a 'cone' rather than just a vertical column.

The tiny particles don't move fast in gear oil by gravity OR magnetic attraction. My observation of metal-contaminated gear oil was three times, settling one gallon each time. So I'm no expert, but I did watch gear oil more than anyone I know. It would not take much to unseat me as the King watcher of oil settling. That monkeybusiness is flogged pretty well in another thread called Proposal:Settling metal fines out of gear oil that's still fresh

It was in a clear bottle where the oil was about 6 inches deep. It took appx 3 weeks for the metal dust to drop to the bottom. So 6 inches in ~20 days is about 1/3 inch (10mm) per day. Think about that for a few moments. Particles drop out of gear oil (by gravity) at the rate of appx 10 mm per day. There's viscosity, and temperatures, all kinds of variables, but lets just go with 10mm per day.

So the magnet is gathering nearby particles. It pull some horizontally if they are already very close but most of the afro came down from above. AND only if there is clear space on the magnet, and not too much buildup already. Particles are dropping downward (from above this magnet) at 10mm per day. So each night the magnet catches the particles from about 1-2 cc of your oil. Perhaps more than that, but still "not much". But if you park for 4 or 5 days, you can assume that all the metal above the magnet has been caught and held. If your magnet is fairly clean and has capacity to hold it. Maybe 5cc or 10cc of oil purified.

Until the magnet is covered. Then you drive the van, and the violent motion washes off whatever particles can't be held. Probably everything beyond 2mm or 3 mm thick? Then that night the magnet gathers up another afro from the nearby (& above) contaminated oil, faster if the oils got lots of metal in it.

If you have BIG metal particles they hold a lot better though, but you don't want big particles, that means your trans is already going south and you're a little late to be concerning yourself with clean oil. But in general you wanna milk more miles out so cleaner is STILL better. But it woulda been better to keep it clean back when the bearings were tight & new.

Well anyway there ya have it (JMHO ). I'm a fan of filler bung magnets for their ease of access, but they don't compare (in my mind) to one situated in the oil all night long.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[BavarianWrench]

Hello Ron
Thanks for the great detail. You always provide, quality information. I'm glad to see the gear box appears to be doing well. Forgive me here, because I've never monitored a gearbox this closely. Do you feel the wear is acceptable? I have no gauge how much material in a filter between services is normal. I've always been a 30,000 mile fluid changer. In 30,000 miles there is usually some material that has settled on the magnet. Gear oil when not full of glitter is normal to me. I always expect some wear. I'm curious what your thoughts are, on the info you have gathered. It is way more detailed then anything I have done.
Thanks
Andrew

[Jake de Villiers]

Thanks for the thorough report! Looks like your transaxle is doing really well due to your diligence and your rebuilder, both. Well done!

I take it you're still loving the 202 in there?
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com

[E1]

Very well done, Thanks for the great info!!!
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[Sodo]

The black stuff is the metal dust that's good to remove from the oil. It passes right thru filters and only a magnet can hold it. But a magnet can hold only a very thin film right on its surface, it washes off easily. So its good to keep a clean surface to remove all the black ferrous coating that you can get. And the more black stuff you remove, the longer the bearings will last. And of course the magnet holds the bigger, visible particles too, but you don't WANT your trans to be making the bigger stuff.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Syncro Jael]

[raoul mitgong]

Who did the last rebuild?
-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[Syncro Jael]

[Jake de Villiers]

Whoops - too slow on the draw!
_________________
'84 Vanagon GL 1.9 WBX
'86 Westy Weekender Poptop/2.5 Subaru/5 Speed Posi/Audi Front Brakes/16 x 7 Mercedes Wheels - answers to 'Dixie'
@jakedevilliersmusic1
http://sites.google.com/site/subyjake/mydixiedarlin%27
www.crescentbeachguitar.com
www.thebassspa.com

[Jake de Villiers]

[SCM]

[minsk]

thank you for posting this...awesome documentation.
_________________
1987 Sunroof Syncro
1988 Vanagon GL
1990 Carat
2009 audi a3

www.sunroofsyncro.com
vanagonmechanic.com

http://facebook.com/pittsburghvanagonclub
https://www.youtube.com/minskmade


my super slow 1987 sunroof syncro rebuild
https://goo.gl/photos/7e9MZhHJxGvvv1Tm7

VANAGON STICKERS
https://www.etsy.com/shop/pigeonink

[Pcforno]

Like SJ I’ve been running 202 in a fresh rebuild for 20k miles. Also with filtering and cooling at 4th gear/MS. So far close to zero metallic debris when I check and change the filter (thanks for the documentation SJ - I’m bad with that!)
The 202 is definetly about 10 degrees cooler than the 201, and shifts way easier when cold. My transmission temps even when pushing it up Colorado passes in the summer never get above 140.
Time will tell if less metal debris = longer life, but I’m sleeping a lot easier at night knowing that Gears has our collective transaxle backs with new goodies should these home brew solutions fail.
Cheers to the syncro crowd and vanagon science!!

[Syncro Jael]

[Homercules]

Thanks for the detailed info!

I just bought some Swepco 202 for my next service (was running 201), good to know its working well.

I've been making my own fill plugs with rare earth magnets for awhile since its the only way to check if anything is going on without draining all the fluid. I have found it to be a very good indicator of something going on. The first one I installed was to monitor the condition of my truck transmission that started to develop a 5th gear whine. Just before I decided to swap in a new trans I was pulling almost an inch of furry metal particles off the fill plug every 100miles of driving. This is with rare earth magnets, btw the particles don't get washed off. Once particles are on there they really don't want to come off.
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89 Syncro

[Sodo]

[Homercules]

I agree with you on the prevention first. The fill plug idea is really just for monitoring but I like the idea of magnetic filtering. The last transmission I had apart I added half a dozen magnets permanently on the inside. I doubt I'll ever check them.

One thing I did notice with my plugs is that with a powerful enough magnet the field magnetizes the particles which I believe IS pulling in the much smaller particles. However, these magnetized particles want to stick to everything metallic and can stick to oil pans or parts in close proximity. Maybe not a problem? I really should better document my experiments...

Also, I found it interesting that I found an equal amount of swarf on the fill plug magnet as the drain plug. This may be just lucky placement.
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89 Syncro

[Sodo]

[Homercules]