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63 notch hacked up
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Hey fellas

The itch has been scratched and I found myself now with a type 3 which is pretty foreign to me as compared to my 65 type 1 sedan. It’s a 63 that appears to have been around the block when it comes to customizing so its been hacked up in some places. The engine was replaced with an upright motor
I’m Curious how the firewall should actually be/ look like I have one looks like one was built but maybe it’s been recut and replaced also if some one can chime in about the braces for the back seat appears to have been cut out forms an x is that strictly support for rear seat back rest only? Any pics to compare would be helpful of firewall from inside I show one example of another car not mine with braces n also u can see engine compartment lid so if that’s how it supposed to be no other sheet metal 2 isolate engine from cab other than rear seat? Also trying to figure out more about car, trying to find out if it had molding on sides originally, I read sidemarkers were not model specific were they options.
a picture of mine and one that has the brace not my car ,where it also appears patch work was done either rust or for engine access I suppose for firewall area, Want to ensure I don’t get exhaust fumes back in cab suggestions?
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bad1916
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Your car would not have side trim but it would have side markers above the style line. I can’t help you on the braces. If you search for 1963 engine in the forum search you will see pics of the engine compartment. My 63 engine compartment was hacked by a PO to fit dual carbs. Post more pics of your car. We all like pictures
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

bad1916, did you re-work the compartment or left it as is
with the dual carbs, I assume you are also running
an upright engine too because of the hack job ?
If so is your back seat the only cab seperation and
how is the smell / fumes ?

thx, Phil
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bad1916
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

I left mine alone. It’s not a sealed compartment so it doesn’t affect cooling. If you are going back stock and want the single carb and it to look factory it’s worth replacing. If you are planning on a bigger engine with dual carbs it gets tight with the stock 63 compartment. They are smaller than the 64 and up compartments that had dual carbs. I am running attorneys 3 engine with dual carbs. You will run into cooling issues with an upright.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
Hey fellas

The itch has been scratched and I found myself now with a type 3 which is pretty foreign to me as compared to my 65 type 1 sedan. It’s a 63 that appears to have been around the block when it comes to customizing so its been hacked up in some places. The engine was replaced with an upright motor
I’m Curious how the firewall should actually be/ look like I have one looks like one was built but maybe it’s been recut and replaced also if some one can chime in about the braces for the back seat appears to have been cut out forms an x is that strictly support for rear seat back rest only? Any pics to compare would be helpful of firewall from inside I show one example of another car not mine with braces n also u can see engine compartment lid so if that’s how it supposed to be no other sheet metal 2 isolate engine from cab other than rear seat? Also trying to figure out more about car, trying to find out if it had molding on sides originally, I read sidemarkers were not model specific were they options.
a picture of mine and one that has the brace not my car ,where it also appears patch work was done either rust or for engine access I suppose for firewall area, Want to ensure I don’t get exhaust fumes back in cab suggestions?
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So, of the 2 pics above, which is yours? If it's the top 1, then you should be trying to make it look more like the lower one.
You can also go to my gallery, and look thru my Notch pics, as I have quite a few there.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Thanks fellas! Yes my car with the fire wall. WOW is all I can say taking a look at the fab work being done amazing thanks for the pointers I’ll be spending some time going over your posts much appreciated. If the motor I got with the car checks out I’ll keep it upright and ride it out Wink

Here is a shot of the motor


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Here is my pan- thoughts on using pieces from a bug or any type 3 to section out the pan it does have some solid areas to retain.i’ll find Out for sure after removing the rust. U can see it’s been patched before.

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rwf8ball
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Based on the pictures of the pan's I would probably go with the Gerson pan's, and you're probably going to need heater channels as well.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

rwf8ball wrote:
Based on the pictures of the pan's I would probably go with the Gerson pan's, and you're probably going to need heater channels as well.


My thoughts as well. I like the GM tilt wheel column conversion. Wink I've done that one a couple of times now.

Is there any metal ducting under the vents behind the rear window? Just asking, as there are bags over the air cleaners, making me think they are exposed to the weather. While that might be ok for a type 1 engine, putting in a type 3 engine will require you to cap the bottoms off a re-create the water drains back to the sides.

With as much "customization" your car has, you might want to stay with a bug based engine in it. I only say that as you'll have a ton of work fabbing up what you'll need to replace to get everything more correct again.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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sqbk1971
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

So I have a philosophical question. I'm a T3 owner but like everyone I look at T1 etc. The T1 information is all about making sure you have tight seals separating your cool and hot zones of the engine i.e. top from the bottom of engine. Why does T3 get away with having such open air between the zones, and is this T1 hack just be an overheating headache?

A little off topic but thought my curiosity might help this owner.
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Donnie strickland
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

VW completely redesigned the cooling for the Type 3 engine. The airflow comes in from the back of the engine compartment through the rubber bellows and blows forward over the engine, then is diverted by the tin to exit underneath the car. This of course requires completely different engine tin than the Type 1, but has the advantage that the top and bottom halves of the engine compartment do not need to be sealed off from each other.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

sqbk1971 wrote:
So I have a philosophical question. I'm a T3 owner but like everyone I look at T1 etc. The T1 information is all about making sure you have tight seals separating your cool and hot zones of the engine i.e. top from the bottom of engine. Why does T3 get away with having such open air between the zones, and is this T1 hack just be an overheating headache?

A little off topic but thought my curiosity might help this owner.


Donnie nailed it.
Yes, you might have cooling issues, but looking at your pics that you posted up so far, it looks like the PO, or PPO started to try and fix it. By that I mean they cut out the drain pan under the rear louvers in front of the trunk lid to help the engine get some cooling air. They also added some flat aluminum plates to lift the front of the trunk lid to help get even more air into the engine bay.
Now if you wanted, you could close off the opening around the engine like a bug or bus or ghia does, and run it. That should help.
Or, you could cap the bottom of the rear vents back off, and convert the engine over to type 3 cooling and run it. Note; you'll need a full set of cooling tins, a large and small fan shroud and fan, type 3cooling bellows (with clamps), a type 3 generator, and a complete type 3 exhaust system (header, and j-tubes or heat exchangers). This is because the type 3 exhaust set up is wider than a bug.

Some more pics of the engine bay area might help us determine what else you're missing.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

I'm finding out more and more about this car and type 3's daily.
What can you folks tell me about my heater control knob that
is missing. I'm trying to find out what should go
inside the tube or the assembly of it i should say as it appears
empty. I've crawled under the car and for now I know
the heater boxes are not connected I'll have to figure that
out later as I go along to determine if I can make use of
what is already there but i suspect that I might be missing
the guts to this. I know on my type 1, the cables were used
to open and close the vents but this is foreign too me. The car has been
modified heavily from what I'm learning and something like this I would like to put back into operation.

thx, Phil
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notchboy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

From th oics. Things of value. THe dash. Has some issues but treat it well if you remove it. Our arm rests and upper panels look good but painted. Treat them well as they look restorable.

The heater controll knob - it s missing but that boot around it looks painted but is hard to find - treat it well.

This is what you are missing - this is for a bub but is the same principal.


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OK, this thread is over. You win.

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65wagon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

cool, thanks for the diagram its what I was looking for. I'll have to do some fishing to see if the cable remains but i suspect it does not and most likely I'll need to find the guts for the entire setup much appreciated. We have a spring meet in April where I hope I can find some much needed parts. Thanks for the tips on some of my things to keep, not sure if the upper panel cracked during
removal or if already existed but I think I can repair it, cracked the clips
off it though so I'll need to figure out how to repair the clip mounts to
the back side of it.
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

ok fellas just wanted to show you my latest round of findings as
i pick this car apart. Here are shots of the disc brakes
and the rear drums. I'm hoping that I can send in
the front discs to be completely refurbished by a specialty
shop here in SJ. In effort to try and keep my cost down on this build
i would like to use the parts on the car where and when I can. Please
comment about what you see, I assume the rotors are simply
beyond repair because the rust looks deep. That said also comment on
what is or is not factory. I assume my drums etc. have been re-drilled to accommodate the Porsche rims and note I'm also missing some studs.
I also notice that the caliper so close to the rim.. like a hair width away
from hitting the rim. Your comments and feedback are most welcome.
thx, PL
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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

The disc brakes are not stock - hope whoever installed them did it right. The calipers should be rebuilt and the hoses should be replaced. Also looks like the wheels were possibly rubbing the calipers.

The rear subframe should be replaced due to the gaping hole.

The rear bumpstop (thing) isn't stock.
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Thx not sure what the heck that hole is about, both sides of car assume to mount shocks, here is a picture of the the other side to show it bolted in. I’ve seen these sections replaced that u mention does it un bolt or needs to be cut off ?


I Also have two quarter size holes on each side of the torsion bar housing not sure that causes any concern regarding function. I’ve seen others like this is it simply like the common battery tray prone to rust in this manner. Looks like a blow out.

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ataraxia
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

That subframe has got to be very rusty and probably compromised if it's rusting out at the bottom and it has two gaping holes in the top near the shocks.

The PO must have broken the weld nuts for the shocks and chose to solve that problem by creating another one.

I wouldn't drive a car with that super rusty subframe. The good news is that they're pretty easy to find and not terribly expensive. Swapping it out is rather time-consuming and who knows what else you'll find along the way...but wouldn't you rather find out now?

Welcome to the slippery slope of Type 3 ownership...
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

ataraxia wrote:
The disc brakes are not stock - hope whoever installed them did it right. The calipers should be rebuilt and the hoses should be replaced. Also looks like the wheels were possibly rubbing the calipers.

The rear subframe should be replaced due to the gaping hole.

The rear bumpstop (thing) isn't stock.


Those calipers look like an older set of Varga calipers. These will have 40 mm bores, versus type 3 42mm bores, and are made in Brazil for the Karmann Ghia. You can buy them new for about 50 each from CIP.
The rotors would have to have a skim cut to know if you can re-use them. This is because they start out at 11mm thick new, and are scrap at 8mm thick (3mm of wear total). And yes, you're missing a couple of the 14mm screw in lug studs.

As for the hole, someone cut off the upper bump stop (for wide tire clearance), and failed to patch the opening. You'd have to look to see if the bottom on the sides is holey too (other than the torched drain hole provided). You might want to look for another rear sub frame. These do bolt in. In your case you'll really want a Swing Axle version, since you already have a swing axle trans and axle assemblies. It looks like someone (PO or PPO) went with aftermarket cast iron replacement drums in the rear. Hopefully they're straight, as most are machined off center.

I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

thanks guys that is of big help I suppose I'm a bit relieved that the rear
subframe is bolt on and perhaps not to big of deal considering
I'm thinking about various setup options for both front and rear
suspensions which would potentially require removal of the transmission anyways, what year cars would be compatible to finding this part? I'm actually headed to a vw graveyard this weekend in search of a tranny to chop up for an engine stand setup if its under 20 bucks =0) , so its good opportunity for me to looks for other parts. Which leads me to ask this, I'm giving thought to a rear air suspension and if so wouldn't that eliminate the use of the torsion bar and also shock tower ? Thus fixing the tower may be unnecessary, yet i still understand that the reliability of the torsion house could still be a factor, I want to take a closer look at it.

thx, PL
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