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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
thanks guys that is of big help I suppose I'm a bit relieved that the rear
subframe is bolt on and perhaps not to big of deal considering
I'm thinking about various setup options for both front and rear
suspensions which would potentially require removal of the transmission anyways, what year cars would be compatible to finding this part? I'm actually headed to a vw graveyard this weekend in search of a tranny to chop up for an engine stand setup if its under 20 bucks =0) , so its good opportunity for me to looks for other parts. Which leads me to ask this, I'm giving thought to a rear air suspension and if so wouldn't that eliminate the use of the torsion bar and also shock tower ? Thus fixing the tower may be unnecessary, yet i still understand that the reliability of the torsion house could still be a factor, I want to take a closer look at it.
thx, PL |
What you're looking for is a rear sub frame from a 61 to 68 Square or Notch, or a 66-68 Fastback.
For rear air bags, contact Brian Fye (pm him) as he's got some experience with both Swing Axle and IRS versions of it, and can direct you into what you need. I don't think you need an actual "kit" to accomplish this. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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I’m Looking at going forward with replacing them rear torsion housing,will a 65 k member be ok ? Is year specific or any type 3 be ok pending it being a swing axle it appears that some brackets were welded on mine for transmission and thought that was more typical or needed for an irs tranny mount. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
I’m Looking at going forward with replacing them rear torsion housing,will a 65 k member be ok ? Is year specific or any type 3 be ok pending it being a swing axle it appears that some brackets were welded on mine for transmission and thought that was more typical or needed for an irs tranny mount. |
A 65 will be ok. Like I mentioned above, a 61 thru 68 Notch and Square, or 66 thru 68 Fastback rear sub will work just fine.
If you're planning on going IRS, then you'll need a 69 thru 73 rear sub, an IRS trans, and drive axles. You'll also need to fabricate some sort of rear engine hanger, or modify the unit you get with a set of forks. There was a discussion of this a while back. Do a search to find out some of the methods to achieve this, as there are several ways it can be done.
On my own 65 Notch, I used a rear sub from a 70 Fastback, trans from a 73 super beetle (single side cover with 3.88:1 final drive), and IRS axles. I also used engine hangers from a 71 Squareback, and flipped them side for side, before welding them to the body. I did that back in 2003, and haven't had any issues with it since. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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toddgsanford Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2003 Posts: 442
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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rotors and calipers on rock auto are probably cheaper than having some one cut or rebuild them look at KG years wheel bearings may be different. last time I checked rotors are @ 14.00 each and calipers were like 80 per set for new replace hoses as well Rear brakes do not look like type three Possibly bug also check shoe width rear engine hanger is pretty jankified but it is a notch so its worth fixing. and in Cali you can probabaly find parts kind of local Isp West is the best reliable source for all things type 3 |
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Boogievan Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2007 Posts: 152 Location: Port Orchard, WA.
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Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
I'm actually headed to a vw graveyard this weekend in search of a tranny to chop up for an engine stand setup if its under 20 bucks =0) , so its good opportunity for me to looks for other parts. Which leads me to ask this, I'm giving thought to a rear air suspension and if so wouldn't that eliminate the use of the torsion bar and also shock tower ? Thus fixing the tower may be unnecessary, yet i still understand that the reliability of the torsion house could still be a factor, I want to take a closer look at it. thx, PL |
Did you go junk yarding yet??? That's one of my favorite pastimes...
You may want to acquire both an IRS and a swing axle sub-frame, if you can. I'll explain in a second...
Bobnotch wrote: |
If you're planning on going IRS, then you'll need a 69 thru 73 rear sub, an IRS trans, and drive axles. You'll also need to fabricate some sort of rear engine hanger, or modify the unit you get with a set of forks. There was a discussion of this a while back. Do a search to find out some of the methods to achieve this, as there are several ways it can be done. |
Another option for a conversion is to use the trailing arms and mounts (and transmission) from an IRS sub-frame and weld them onto the swing axle sub-frame. Then you get the trailing arm mounts, and the frame horns to mount the motor. There are write ups on how to do this. There is some fab work required, but it's pretty basic. I mention this because it may be tricky to get the IRS moustache bar and hanger mounts to work with that Type 1 motor. Since the sub-frame that's in your car looks like it might be junk, you would need to find one of each flavor. |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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Good stuff all, thanks for the tips, I took the advice and went ahead and replaced the torsion housing as suggested and got it bolted back in. I'm giving some good consideration to going ahead and installing Gerson pans as I review the write ups that have been done on this before, Is there a preference what side gets welded to the tunnel. I've seen some take the lip of the new pan
and have it sit on top of the remaining lip(remaining piece of metal from tunnel from front to back) while another write up shows it welded from the bottom side, therefore the pan is hanging instead of sitting on what could be considered as additional support or is it really a non issue, seems like either way will work. My plan of attack is to unbolt the body and lift it only enough to get the new pan in, skill set, and space are factors =0) , my hopes are that by limiting the body
from pan off I can get the new pans to properly align before going in and welding it back into place. I assume this method will also allow me to get
the pan gasket back in there a well, seems like just buying a new gasket is the way. thx |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
Good stuff all, thanks for the tips, I took the advice and went ahead and replaced the torsion housing as suggested and got it bolted back in. I'm giving some good consideration to going ahead and installing Gerson pans as I review the write ups that have been done on this before, Is there a preference what side gets welded to the tunnel. I've seen some take the lip of the new pan
and have it sit on top of the remaining lip(remaining piece of metal from tunnel from front to back) while another write up shows it welded from the bottom side, therefore the pan is hanging instead of sitting on what could be considered as additional support or is it really a non issue, seems like either way will work. My plan of attack is to unbolt the body and lift it only enough to get the new pan in, skill set, and space are factors =0) , my hopes are that by limiting the body
from pan off I can get the new pans to properly align before going in and welding it back into place. I assume this method will also allow me to get
the pan gasket back in there a well, seems like just buying a new gasket is the way. thx |
You can go from above (sitting on the lip), or below. It's your choice. Keep in mind that you're still going to have to trim the pan edge that runs along side the tunnel either way.
You're going to find that you might need to lift the body more than a few inches, as up front there's more metal attached to the pan at the lower front wall corners. This area is the hardest part of the whole job.
I hope this helps. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:58 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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Bob
can you tell me what years if at all are compatible for the rear
apron, I circled the area that I'm looking to repair was thinking
about just cutting out this area instead of the entire apron.
Fastback and squareback parts seems readily available?
Picture shown is not my car but a part for sale.
thx
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
Bob
can you tell me what years if at all are compatible for the rear
apron, I circled the area that I'm looking to repair was thinking
about just cutting out this area instead of the entire apron.
Fastback and squareback parts seems readily available?
Picture shown is not my car but a part for sale.
thx
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All years are compatible, but you'll need to rework the indent on both Fastbacks and Squares. If you're just going to use the lower part, then all years and models (except T-34 Ghia) can be used. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Back to top |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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Much appreciated! |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:04 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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folks
is this the Bentley manual i should acquire , i have the haynes book
but that just covers some of the things I need.
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17970 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:34 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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Yes, that is the early Bentley that you should have for an early '65 Type 3. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:17 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
folks
is this the Bentley manual i should acquire , i have the haynes book
but that just covers some of the things I need.
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Yup, that one covers your car. In the back of it is the body section which can help you with building some fixtures for alignment of parts. It does cover the car (in stock form), and is worth having.
I have a Brown Bentley as well as the blue one and a Haynes. I got the blue Bentley about 6 months after it came out, but only really used it while working on my T-34. With the Haynes and the Brown Bentley, I've been able to keep my cars alive. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Back to top |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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thanks gents...guess I know what my next purchase is =0). |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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Finally got my master cylinder out, been working on loads
of things so Im bouncing around here a bit, I did get
to the rear torsion housing and put in a refurbished
unit thank you for making the suggestion, wasn't a bad job at all.
What I wanted to ask was being that my current setup was with
disc brakes in the front and drums in the back, I've read
that i should be on the dual circuit not single, thoughts
advice on that please ? I would prefer NOT to have to change
out my existing metal lines that span out from the master
they are good, will replace soft lines and main line
that runs from the front to rear as that is shot.
looking for options my cylinder is stamped with the 19 followed by a 6 and a 2 on the back side. |
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Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13281 Location: Tejas!
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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get the dual circuit for sure. I didn't change my metal lines on my 65, just used a brass plug on the extra ports. Use the brake light switch closest to your foot if you don't want to wire both up. the closer one turns on sooner than the second. I used as T from the original reservoir, but some have used the dual reservoir with some fabrication. _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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jadney Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2005 Posts: 263 Location: Madison, WI, USA
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Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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toddgsanford wrote: |
rotors and calipers on rock auto are probably cheaper than having some one cut or rebuild them |
Okay for the rotors, but the calipers that are available new today are all Type 1 calipers with 40 mm pistons. Type 3 calipers have 42 mm pistons, giving about 10% more braking force for the same pedal force.
Note that if this car has been converted to front disks, there's a good chance that the calipers on there now are already Beetle calipers. I rebuild calipers and have good rebuilt Type 3 calipers on the shelf if you need them, but they won't be as cheap as new Brazilian Type 1 calipers. If you have Type 3 calipers, your best bet would be to send them to me for rebuilding. _________________ Jim Adney
50+ years of VW Type 3 experience
Specializing in VW Type 3 parts and service |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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Erik G wrote: |
get the dual circuit for sure. I didn't change my metal lines on my 65, just used a brass plug on the extra ports. Use the brake light switch closest to your foot if you don't want to wire both up. the closer one turns on sooner than the second. I used as T from the original reservoir, but some have used the dual reservoir with some fabrication. |
Agreed, go with the dual circuit master cylinder. It's a safety thing. You might have to change the left front brake line due to it being short, but it's not a big deal. I'm one of those who have converted, and used the dual circuit rez jug, and I went with blue hoses from the jug to the master cylinder in 1 shot on both lines. I did that, as I didn't want any splices (possible leak points) in those lines. Instead of a plug, you could run 2 switches, and only wire 1 up. That way IF the switch ever fails, you just move the wires to the other switch and you have brake lights again. I've found some switches last almost forever, and some don't. It's just the luck of the draw. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
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Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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I'm going through the entire braking system, in the
rear I've got drums but not sure about what has been done by previous owners.
I'm trying to identify what I have so I can order new cylinders. Looks
like ATE brand and from what I see, the markings stamped on there show "17"
I can not make out the 3 numbers, 026 maybe or 626- its pitted so hard to read... thoughts on identifying it and what replacements I can use.
the rubber boot is marked with 3.3403-8900.1 H28
thanks all. |
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Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22431 Location: Kimball, Mi
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Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
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65wagon wrote: |
I'm going through the entire braking system, in the
rear I've got drums but not sure about what has been done by previous owners.
I'm trying to identify what I have so I can order new cylinders. Looks
like ATE brand and from what I see, the markings stamped on there show "17"
I can not make out the 3 numbers, 026 maybe or 626- its pitted so hard to read... thoughts on identifying it and what replacements I can use.
the rubber boot is marked with 3.3403-8900.1 H28
thanks all. |
The last time I replaced rear wheel cylinders, I just ordered up a set for a 66 Squareback from AutoZone. They had them in the next day. You could also try ordering up a kit from NAPA. The "17" is the piston size in metric for the wheel cylinder (basically 11/16ths of an inch). _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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