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63 notch hacked up
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
thanks guys that is of big help I suppose I'm a bit relieved that the rear
subframe is bolt on and perhaps not to big of deal considering
I'm thinking about various setup options for both front and rear
suspensions which would potentially require removal of the transmission anyways, what year cars would be compatible to finding this part? I'm actually headed to a vw graveyard this weekend in search of a tranny to chop up for an engine stand setup if its under 20 bucks =0) , so its good opportunity for me to looks for other parts. Which leads me to ask this, I'm giving thought to a rear air suspension and if so wouldn't that eliminate the use of the torsion bar and also shock tower ? Thus fixing the tower may be unnecessary, yet i still understand that the reliability of the torsion house could still be a factor, I want to take a closer look at it.

thx, PL


What you're looking for is a rear sub frame from a 61 to 68 Square or Notch, or a 66-68 Fastback.

For rear air bags, contact Brian Fye (pm him) as he's got some experience with both Swing Axle and IRS versions of it, and can direct you into what you need. I don't think you need an actual "kit" to accomplish this.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

I’m Looking at going forward with replacing them rear torsion housing,will a 65 k member be ok ? Is year specific or any type 3 be ok pending it being a swing axle it appears that some brackets were welded on mine for transmission and thought that was more typical or needed for an irs tranny mount.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
I’m Looking at going forward with replacing them rear torsion housing,will a 65 k member be ok ? Is year specific or any type 3 be ok pending it being a swing axle it appears that some brackets were welded on mine for transmission and thought that was more typical or needed for an irs tranny mount.


A 65 will be ok. Like I mentioned above, a 61 thru 68 Notch and Square, or 66 thru 68 Fastback rear sub will work just fine.
If you're planning on going IRS, then you'll need a 69 thru 73 rear sub, an IRS trans, and drive axles. You'll also need to fabricate some sort of rear engine hanger, or modify the unit you get with a set of forks. There was a discussion of this a while back. Do a search to find out some of the methods to achieve this, as there are several ways it can be done.
On my own 65 Notch, I used a rear sub from a 70 Fastback, trans from a 73 super beetle (single side cover with 3.88:1 final drive), and IRS axles. I also used engine hangers from a 71 Squareback, and flipped them side for side, before welding them to the body. I did that back in 2003, and haven't had any issues with it since.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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toddgsanford
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

rotors and calipers on rock auto are probably cheaper than having some one cut or rebuild them look at KG years wheel bearings may be different. last time I checked rotors are @ 14.00 each and calipers were like 80 per set for new replace hoses as well Rear brakes do not look like type three Possibly bug also check shoe width rear engine hanger is pretty jankified but it is a notch so its worth fixing. and in Cali you can probabaly find parts kind of local Isp West is the best reliable source for all things type 3
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Boogievan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:

I'm actually headed to a vw graveyard this weekend in search of a tranny to chop up for an engine stand setup if its under 20 bucks =0) , so its good opportunity for me to looks for other parts. Which leads me to ask this, I'm giving thought to a rear air suspension and if so wouldn't that eliminate the use of the torsion bar and also shock tower ? Thus fixing the tower may be unnecessary, yet i still understand that the reliability of the torsion house could still be a factor, I want to take a closer look at it. thx, PL


Did you go junk yarding yet??? That's one of my favorite pastimes...
You may want to acquire both an IRS and a swing axle sub-frame, if you can. I'll explain in a second...


Bobnotch wrote:

If you're planning on going IRS, then you'll need a 69 thru 73 rear sub, an IRS trans, and drive axles. You'll also need to fabricate some sort of rear engine hanger, or modify the unit you get with a set of forks. There was a discussion of this a while back. Do a search to find out some of the methods to achieve this, as there are several ways it can be done.


Another option for a conversion is to use the trailing arms and mounts (and transmission) from an IRS sub-frame and weld them onto the swing axle sub-frame. Then you get the trailing arm mounts, and the frame horns to mount the motor. There are write ups on how to do this. There is some fab work required, but it's pretty basic. I mention this because it may be tricky to get the IRS moustache bar and hanger mounts to work with that Type 1 motor. Since the sub-frame that's in your car looks like it might be junk, you would need to find one of each flavor.
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Good stuff all, thanks for the tips, I took the advice and went ahead and replaced the torsion housing as suggested and got it bolted back in. I'm giving some good consideration to going ahead and installing Gerson pans as I review the write ups that have been done on this before, Is there a preference what side gets welded to the tunnel. I've seen some take the lip of the new pan
and have it sit on top of the remaining lip(remaining piece of metal from tunnel from front to back) while another write up shows it welded from the bottom side, therefore the pan is hanging instead of sitting on what could be considered as additional support or is it really a non issue, seems like either way will work. My plan of attack is to unbolt the body and lift it only enough to get the new pan in, skill set, and space are factors =0) , my hopes are that by limiting the body
from pan off I can get the new pans to properly align before going in and welding it back into place. I assume this method will also allow me to get
the pan gasket back in there a well, seems like just buying a new gasket is the way. thx
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
Good stuff all, thanks for the tips, I took the advice and went ahead and replaced the torsion housing as suggested and got it bolted back in. I'm giving some good consideration to going ahead and installing Gerson pans as I review the write ups that have been done on this before, Is there a preference what side gets welded to the tunnel. I've seen some take the lip of the new pan
and have it sit on top of the remaining lip(remaining piece of metal from tunnel from front to back) while another write up shows it welded from the bottom side, therefore the pan is hanging instead of sitting on what could be considered as additional support or is it really a non issue, seems like either way will work. My plan of attack is to unbolt the body and lift it only enough to get the new pan in, skill set, and space are factors =0) , my hopes are that by limiting the body
from pan off I can get the new pans to properly align before going in and welding it back into place. I assume this method will also allow me to get
the pan gasket back in there a well, seems like just buying a new gasket is the way. thx


You can go from above (sitting on the lip), or below. It's your choice. Keep in mind that you're still going to have to trim the pan edge that runs along side the tunnel either way.
You're going to find that you might need to lift the body more than a few inches, as up front there's more metal attached to the pan at the lower front wall corners. This area is the hardest part of the whole job.
I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Bob


can you tell me what years if at all are compatible for the rear
apron, I circled the area that I'm looking to repair was thinking
about just cutting out this area instead of the entire apron.
Fastback and squareback parts seems readily available?
Picture shown is not my car but a part for sale.

thx
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
Bob


can you tell me what years if at all are compatible for the rear
apron, I circled the area that I'm looking to repair was thinking
about just cutting out this area instead of the entire apron.
Fastback and squareback parts seems readily available?
Picture shown is not my car but a part for sale.

thx
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All years are compatible, but you'll need to rework the indent on both Fastbacks and Squares. If you're just going to use the lower part, then all years and models (except T-34 Ghia) can be used.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Much appreciated!
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

folks

is this the Bentley manual i should acquire , i have the haynes book
but that just covers some of the things I need.
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Yes, that is the early Bentley that you should have for an early '65 Type 3.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
folks

is this the Bentley manual i should acquire , i have the haynes book
but that just covers some of the things I need.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Yup, that one covers your car. In the back of it is the body section which can help you with building some fixtures for alignment of parts. It does cover the car (in stock form), and is worth having.
I have a Brown Bentley as well as the blue one and a Haynes. I got the blue Bentley about 6 months after it came out, but only really used it while working on my T-34. With the Haynes and the Brown Bentley, I've been able to keep my cars alive. Very Happy
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

thanks gents...guess I know what my next purchase is =0).
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Finally got my master cylinder out, been working on loads
of things so Im bouncing around here a bit, I did get
to the rear torsion housing and put in a refurbished
unit thank you for making the suggestion, wasn't a bad job at all.
What I wanted to ask was being that my current setup was with
disc brakes in the front and drums in the back, I've read
that i should be on the dual circuit not single, thoughts
advice on that please ? I would prefer NOT to have to change
out my existing metal lines that span out from the master
they are good, will replace soft lines and main line
that runs from the front to rear as that is shot.
looking for options my cylinder is stamped with the 19 followed by a 6 and a 2 on the back side.
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

get the dual circuit for sure. I didn't change my metal lines on my 65, just used a brass plug on the extra ports. Use the brake light switch closest to your foot if you don't want to wire both up. the closer one turns on sooner than the second. I used as T from the original reservoir, but some have used the dual reservoir with some fabrication.
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jadney
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

toddgsanford wrote:
rotors and calipers on rock auto are probably cheaper than having some one cut or rebuild them


Okay for the rotors, but the calipers that are available new today are all Type 1 calipers with 40 mm pistons. Type 3 calipers have 42 mm pistons, giving about 10% more braking force for the same pedal force.

Note that if this car has been converted to front disks, there's a good chance that the calipers on there now are already Beetle calipers. I rebuild calipers and have good rebuilt Type 3 calipers on the shelf if you need them, but they won't be as cheap as new Brazilian Type 1 calipers. If you have Type 3 calipers, your best bet would be to send them to me for rebuilding.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
get the dual circuit for sure. I didn't change my metal lines on my 65, just used a brass plug on the extra ports. Use the brake light switch closest to your foot if you don't want to wire both up. the closer one turns on sooner than the second. I used as T from the original reservoir, but some have used the dual reservoir with some fabrication.


Agreed, go with the dual circuit master cylinder. It's a safety thing. You might have to change the left front brake line due to it being short, but it's not a big deal. I'm one of those who have converted, and used the dual circuit rez jug, and I went with blue hoses from the jug to the master cylinder in 1 shot on both lines. I did that, as I didn't want any splices (possible leak points) in those lines. Instead of a plug, you could run 2 switches, and only wire 1 up. That way IF the switch ever fails, you just move the wires to the other switch and you have brake lights again. I've found some switches last almost forever, and some don't. It's just the luck of the draw.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
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Tram wrote:
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65wagon
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

I'm going through the entire braking system, in the
rear I've got drums but not sure about what has been done by previous owners.
I'm trying to identify what I have so I can order new cylinders. Looks
like ATE brand and from what I see, the markings stamped on there show "17"
I can not make out the 3 numbers, 026 maybe or 626- its pitted so hard to read... thoughts on identifying it and what replacements I can use.
the rubber boot is marked with 3.3403-8900.1 H28
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thanks all.
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up Reply with quote

65wagon wrote:
I'm going through the entire braking system, in the
rear I've got drums but not sure about what has been done by previous owners.
I'm trying to identify what I have so I can order new cylinders. Looks
like ATE brand and from what I see, the markings stamped on there show "17"
I can not make out the 3 numbers, 026 maybe or 626- its pitted so hard to read... thoughts on identifying it and what replacements I can use.
the rubber boot is marked with 3.3403-8900.1 H28
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


thanks all.

The last time I replaced rear wheel cylinders, I just ordered up a set for a 66 Squareback from AutoZone. They had them in the next day. You could also try ordering up a kit from NAPA. The "17" is the piston size in metric for the wheel cylinder (basically 11/16ths of an inch).
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote:
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives."
Tram wrote:
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed".
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