Author |
Message |
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
folks
I was under the impression that my car should originally be 5 wide
in the rear with respect to the drums, the car has some
Porsche alloys on them probably steel but the drums appeared to have
been drilled(Not Orig.) Pattern is 5 x 130, just looking
for answers to what I'm sitting on with regards to what I have,
what should have been there and where I should go. As I go
through the brake system I'm faced with possibly
replacing the drums, haven't taken them in yet to simply
see if they can be re-honed, so an alternative is simply
to replace but with what ? Do I like the current rims, sure
can they be saved dont know, pitted but possibly can be cleaned up
but I do like the EMPI BRM those i think are available in the 4 lug or 5 x 205, Ideally
I'd like to have the option to run either. Here is a shot of the rear drums
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
rwf8ball Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2004 Posts: 234
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
Any pictures of the wheels that came on the car? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
here is shot of one of the Fuchs, assume they are repos.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
when I measured the bolt pattern i went from dead center
from one lug nut to the outside edge of of the opposite side
measured about 5 inches ( 127mm) roughly assuming I took
the correct measurement so I came up with the 5x130 correct ? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
|
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
yes. You have 4 lug bug drums that are drilled out to 5x130
they work...
type 3 drums would be better. If you're staying 5x130, that can be pricey to get the 5x130 hubs
64-65 wide 5 (5x205) rear drums are available in re-production and are pretty good quality. the splines are fairly tight, might have to clean them up a bit
The front is another story. You could go custom and add 5x205 discs up front. Someone will post up the link. Thats what I would do if I were you and wanting 5lug BRM's _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:09 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
65wagon wrote: |
folks
I was under the impression that my car should originally be 5 wide
in the rear with respect to the drums,... Do I like the current rims, sure
can they be saved dont know, pitted but possibly can be cleaned up
but I do like the EMPI BRM those i think are available in the 4 lug or 5 x 205, Ideally
I'd like to have the option to run either. Here is a shot of the rear drums
|
Yup 4 lug bug drums that have been redrilled for the 5x130 pattern.
Unfortunately you have to decide which do you want, wide 5? Or 4lug? You can't have both patterns.
As for front discs, either get them from CSP, or modify the front spindles and use a So Cal Imports wide 5 kit. I did that on my 64 T-34. On my 65 Notch, I went 4 lug all around using stock VW parts. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
oh man tough choice but here is where I'm at. Leaning towards
5 wide, supports the rim I'd like to run but is gonna co$t me maybe
unless I can recoup some of it by selling the fuchs.....
That said - I like the 5 wide BRMS - at some point I have
to change out the rear drums thus the matter is pressing as I have to make a choice, leaning towards new drums but as previously indicated some trimming is required, also If I go this path does the backing plate and rest remain as is ? I like Erik's suggestion ( 64-65 wide 5 (5x205) rear drums are available in re-production and are pretty good quality. the splines are fairly tight, might have to clean them up a bit ). - would those years 64-65 that are recommended also be from a type 3 ?
As for the front probably not too much concern their I assume the entire front end is shot and I have plans for it so I anticipate most likely most of it will be replaced so changing the front discs to 5 wide setup is already a known cost that I will bare. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17962 Location: Eugene, OR
|
Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
I'd detail the Fuchs w/black spokes & Porsche caps. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
65wagon wrote: |
oh man tough choice but here is where I'm at. Leaning towards
5 wide, supports the rim I'd like to run but is gonna co$t me maybe
unless I can recoup some of it by selling the fuchs.....
That said - I like the 5 wide BRMS - at some point I have
to change out the rear drums thus the matter is pressing as I have to make a choice, leaning towards new drums but as previously indicated some trimming is required, also If I go this path does the backing plate and rest remain as is ? I like Erik's suggestion ( 64-65 wide 5 (5x205) rear drums are available in re-production and are pretty good quality. the splines are fairly tight, might have to clean them up a bit ). - would those years 64-65 that are recommended also be from a type 3 ? |
Well, this is where things get kind of tricky. Since you have bug drums (67-on), the backing plates you currently have are of no use to you. You could clean them and the drums up, and see if you can sell them. You'll need to change them out too in other words.
So, you can either use 65 and earlier (and more expensive) rear backing plates, or 66 to 73 type 3 rear backing plates which should be both cheaper and easier to find. The difference between 65 and 66 backing plates are the holes for the brake adjusters in the 66-on plates. Everything else is basically the same.
Since you're asking about splines, they're basically the same, since your axles are the "long -long" combination (long axles with long splines) that the type 3 swing axle uses.
I hope this helps. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Jason37 Samba Member
Joined: April 21, 2004 Posts: 1027
|
Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
Also look at the ISP west wide five front brake kit. Uses a late type three disc brake spindle, (which you already have) and looks to be a bolt on affair. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
Jason37 wrote: |
Also look at the ISP west wide five front brake kit. Uses a late type three disc brake spindle, (which you already have) and looks to be a bolt on affair. |
I didn't know ISP was offering the kit. If it's truly a complete bolt on kit, that's a better deal than modifying a pair of spindles and buying a master cylinder that you can't use. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
Fellas
for now I've decided to try and keep my existing set up where and when possible, it was noted that I've got 67 drums (beetle) drilled to a 5x130 pattern.
Found out today that my current ones are beyond saving. If I go
with a type 3 drum to keep the 5x130 pattern do I still need to change
the backing plate. I would prefer not to change the backing plate.
I see some of the dual patterns that are available
Fits:
1968-77 VW Bug
1971-79 VW Super Beetle
1967-74 VW Karmann Ghia
if I understand correctly, I should change the backing plate to accommodate
this repo type 3 - 5x130 drums, or get a pair of type 1 drums and also have those machined. The other option is to change it all to 5 wide but then lose my existing rims. Seems like my option to keep existing backing plate is
to head to a machine shop. Was quoted 35.00 to cut each drum but one was border line no go, so might as well replace. I guess I'm just wondering if I missed something as an additional option to keep my existing bolt pattern without having to change too much. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
65wagon wrote: |
Fellas
for now I've decided to try and keep my existing set up where and when possible, it was noted that I've got 67 drums (beetle) drilled to a 5x130 pattern.
Found out today that my current ones are beyond saving. If I go
with a type 3 drum to keep the 5x130 pattern do I still need to change
the backing plate. I would prefer not to change the backing plate.
I see some of the dual patterns that are available
Fits:
1968-77 VW Bug
1971-79 VW Super Beetle
1967-74 VW Karmann Ghia
if I understand correctly, I should change the backing plate to accommodate
this repo type 3 - 5x130 drums, or get a pair of type 1 drums and also have those machined. The other option is to change it all to 5 wide but then lose my existing rims. Seems like my option to keep existing backing plate is
to head to a machine shop. Was quoted 35.00 to cut each drum but one was border line no go, so might as well replace. I guess I'm just wondering if I missed something as an additional option to keep my existing bolt pattern without having to change too much. |
If you're staying with the 5x130 pattern and bug drums, then you just need new drums that are drilled for them, so you can have 5x130 drums. Or get new ones with both 4 lug and 5x130 patterns drilled in them (they are offered that way too. This would be your cheapest option, but also keep in mind that bug drums are smaller than type 3 drums, and you're giving up some braking power.
Ideally you'd want to switch the rear backing plates to 66 on type 3 plates, and search the classifieds for some good used type 3 4 lug drums AND hubs (they're separate on t-3's), and have them re-drilled for 5x130 pattern. That way IF in the future you decide to go wide 5, all you'll need is the wide 5 drums, and a front rotor and caliper swap (the ISP wide 5 disc kit).
Sorry to say there's no real way to cheap out. I hope this helps. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
I like the idea of going to 66 plates with some type 3 drums/hubs, hmmmm.
thank you for that suggestion, I'll give it some thought. Could
I re-use my wheel cylinders, I just got a set in the process of
redoing my brakes.
additionally you stated . That way IF in the future you decide to go wide 5, all you'll need is the wide 5 drums). What about the hubs ?
rookie here..... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
65wagon wrote: |
I like the idea of going to 66 plates with some type 3 drums/hubs, hmmmm.
thank you for that suggestion, I'll give it some thought. Could
I re-use my wheel cylinders, I just got a set in the process of
redoing my brakes.
additionally you stated . That way IF in the future you decide to go wide 5, all you'll need is the wide 5 drums). What about the hubs ?
rookie here..... |
Unfortunately bug rear wheel cylinders are too small for type 3s.
As for going with wide 5 type drums, they are 1 piece cast (like bug drums), while type 3 4 lug drums are 2 piece (hub separate from the drum like modern cars). _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
Got it!
thank you gents. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
So as i mentioned earlier, it appears someone prior to me made all sorts of changes to the car. One of the members here indicated I had 67 beetle drums, as I'm contemplating for the sake of cost going with the 5x130 replacements
that come in both 5x130 and 4 lug, the years for those indicate 68-79 for a beetle so I'm concerned that these would not fit. I'm a little thrown on the "67" year but perhaps I'm ok ? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Erik G Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002 Posts: 13247 Location: Tejas!
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
your current 4 lug are 68-79 bug drums, whoever said that was mistaken
67 bugs still had wide 5.
(would be better to have type 3 brakes... but budget wise, I get it) _________________ Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003 Posts: 22356 Location: Kimball, Mi
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
Erik G wrote: |
your current 4 lug are 68-79 bug drums, whoever said that was mistaken
67 bugs still had wide 5.
(would be better to have type 3 brakes... but budget wise, I get it) |
Yup, and agreed.
And it was my typo on Dec 19th, where I wrote 67-on bug drums, when I meant to say 68-on bug drums.
By the way, they (68 on bug drums) should bolt on with any machining in your application. _________________ Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
Tram wrote: |
"Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
Tram wrote: |
People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
65wagon Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2003 Posts: 88 Location: san jose ca
|
Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: 63 notch hacked up |
|
|
you guys rock!
thank you |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|