Heater Beater 1776

[Brian_e]

I have found once everything is really dialed in close, my Kad's idle better without a balance tube. I mean valves adjusted perfect, idle mix screws, idle speed, sync, linkage, return springs etc... I can't stand a high idle, so I usually set them about 900rpm. Last two Kad engines were this way.

I believe the balance tube was a band-aid to over come any tuning issues that might be slightly off. I would however tap them for a 1/2"NPT fitting now so you can experiment to find what works best. Then just put in a pipe plug if you find it works better without. I am interested to hear your results.

I think the 163 will be fine. If you like it too seem "cammy" it will probably do just that. It might be slightly soggy down low, but it will probably come on pretty decent, especially if your heads are good and you have enough compression.

Brian

[Alstrup]

[Clatter]

Awlright.. Two months later..

Web was way behind, and it took like 6+ weeks to get my 163.

In the meantime, I ended up looking at the heads a bit.
The heads I was going to use were kind of too nice for this motor,
So I used these others.

They are some old Auto Linea G01s from about 15 years ago or so;
Only like $85ea. from Pacific Customs brand new.

When i got them, they went on a 1641 that i kind of just slapped together.
Because they were all new and together, they got port-matched to the manifold, as well as the chambers done.
And any obvious mis-alignments were corrected, as well as any offending ridges and bumps.
The guides, however, stayed in place, so they really only got minimal work.
They ran for a few years, and saw some abuse.
Didn't have a wideband back then; they saw some high temps as we experimented with tune.
They also got pushed really hard on the highway on many occasions..
When the motor came apart for other reasons, one of the guides was loose in the head, so they sat for years

So there's the back-story.

Fast forward to 2018..

Took them to my guy Jim at Napa Carr parts here in Santa Cruz,
He opened them up for the 90.5s, and pushed the guides out.
He also 'de-coked' them, using his acetylene torch, to turn the black goo everywhere, into a black charcoal-like substance.
He then gave them to me for the port/chamber work, which he doesn't do..

They got set on this board i use, that has holes in it to match the rocker studs.
This allows me to work chambers, while they are held in place by the board.

I also finally got a few die-grinders, so i don't have to be changing tools.
See also the variety of long-shank burrs, and flap wheels from the local Homeowner Depot.
(Putting the homo back in homeowner).

This little wire wheel zipped right through the carbon soot.
Chambers were laid back pretty well to unshroud the valves, way back when.
While not really smooth/consistent like pro heads,
i like them, and will leave them as-is.
This all gets covered in more carbon soot anyways,
So why waste a bunch of time making them perfect/pretty, right?
Just so long as those valves are unshrouded nicely, and the chambers are all the same volume.
Right?

Cleaning up the exhaust ports started with more wire wheels,
then went to a burr right afterwards.
Makes it easy to see where you have been..

Going off on a trajectory here.. Stay with me if you can..
GO1 heads have 35x32mm valves. The same heads called GO3s are 40x35.5.
These same castings were further modified and sold as 044s by CB.
Point being, the ports are already pretty big as-cast for these small valves.
Best to not hog them out and kill velocity.
Hold this thought as we progress..


Here's a spot that bugged me about the exhaust port;
This 'angled' entry into the port along the long side under the seat.
See how it's all chunky/rough, and has this 'flat' 45-degree angle thing going on?

I tried to get it smoothed out, and make it more 'curved', to 'turn' the port, vs. just having it bounce off of this lumpy chunky flat area right in the 'way'..

Again, the port is already too big for the valves,
So i stayed away from making the port any bigger as much as i could.

Went in there with the old flap-wheels,
And made it as round and smooth as i could.
Tried to not take off any material, but just enough to make the ports all the same size and shape.

On to the intakes...

Because 041 heads, back in the day, were so hip, they had 39mm intakes,
And today, 37mm intakes are all the rage.
My 35 intakes are a bit on the small side, it seems.
So they could stand to use a little help here, methinks..

Started off by giving them an overall smooth-out and clean-up with the burr..

Again, see how the port is too big for the valves?
The seat is sticking into the port..

See also the rough-cast lumpy/chunky port wall as well..

Kind of a conundrum, you don't want a lumpy port wall, but you don't want to open up bigger than the ID of the seat, either.


One place to get the intake side working better is shown in this pic:

Both above and below the guide make kind of a 'choke point' in the flow.
See how there's a 'transition shelf' between the port,
And the 'bowl' area below the seat?
Because the guides were never removed before, there was a bit of work to be done here.
'Streamlining' around the guide, and 'straightening' the port as well,
By removing the areas marked by the red marker here:

Here, we show the 'after' pic:

The intakes show a bit of work adjacent to the guide boss.
The exhausts show how i smoothed and polished them,
But left a bit of the bottom of the pits and flaws,
As a kind of compromise to keep the port from getting too big.

Intakes stay rough from the burr,
Exhausts get pilished.

I'm calling these ready for guides and a valve job.
This took about 6 hours or so..

For good measure, the manifolds also got the same treatment.
Mostly just to give them a nice tooled finish all the way up,
remove some casting flash,
and make them as close to the same size as possible.
They were already port-matched to these heads before,
but i decided to take the 'matching' up from about 1/2' deep or so,
to about 1 1/2" up the manifold, to smooth the transition a bit..

So there you have it; a home-job fluff n' buff on some used $85 heads!
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[Clatter]

A small update;
The heads needed a fly-cut, so the jugs would seat clear into the heads like they are sposeta..

Here is a classic scene from days gone by..
Jim, again, using the old J-head Bridgeport (Real Bridgeport Bridgeport mind you), to fly-cut the heads down.

Here, we have a first pass, taking off the area i marked in red for removal.

Let's hope these days go on for years to come!

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[Thiago Medeiros]

Amazing work!
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VW Variant II 1980 - Madalena
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8663260#8663260

[calvinater]

Wish there was a guy like Jim near us.
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"Albatross"!

[Clatter]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.. Much appreciated.

I just do the easy part.
Jim does all of the hard stuff.

He is such the master at this. He has done thousands of these motors
(No exaggeration - Not "thousands", -literally- thousands)
The guy has been an automotive machinist his whole life.

A few early years were as airplane motor machinist,
As well as later, a mechanic/dealer for CZ motorcycles (if that gives you an idea of how long he has been at it.. )

Jim is certainly one of a handful of very - very - very experienced VW motor machinists still doing this work.
The shop he works at today was turning out a few rebuilds per day for decades.

Luckily he lets me hang around, get in the way, ask stupid questions, get all excited, take pictures, and run my mouth.
I'm like a spaz little brother that gets in the way, as he is the wise sage that tolerates me like a pesky buzzing fly.

I'm a big fan. A really big fan. This is my favorite guy in the entire world.
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[calvinater]

So , is this engine running yet?
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"Albatross"!

[Clatter]

Look! It's August!!



Funny how the time rolls on by...

Finally just got around to slapping the bottom end of this thing together.

Not much detail to show - standard assembly procedures; Some K2 and 518.

There was a tiny tight spot on that cam gear, where I filed it down, if you will recall.
It would just -barely- pick the cam up out of the bearings in one spot.
Once the case was together, and the crank end play set, the tight spot disappeared.
Especially with a touch of oil on the gears..
I'm pretty certain that one little tight spot will just wear in.
Nice to have a tighter gear for a change methinks.

Had to shorten the (stock VW) head studs to make things fit.

Still not sure about two things - CR, and pushrods/springs.


WRT CR - We are running a Web 163 on a 1776,
So the first assembly of things as they arrive shows a deck of .030,
And a chamber volume of 50cc.

According to the calculator, this gives a nice, tidy 9:1!

We always buy premium fuel.. It's a light beetle.. We tune with a wideband.. We run our cooling tin.. HHhmmmm....

Throwing a .010 shim under there, to get the deck to a more-standard .040
Brings us down to 8.9:1,
And another shim, to .050 deck, gets us to 8.6.

Dag, I dunno... Kadrons are kind of sloppy.. Those heads have pretty short/loose guides..

I know opinions will vary on the subject.
What you guys think?
Bump it up and hear it thump?
(rattle rattle knock knock shut it down by dumping the clutch with brakes on.. )



On again to valvetrain.. Again.

I shoulda coulda gotten a set of CB lightweight lifters.
Can't remember what those weigh; they don't say on their site.
The Febi lifters I used weighed 86g vs. the 94g for a set of Scat lifters;
So,
A little lighter.
Only running stock 1.1 rocker arms..
Doing CB swivel feet - 'elephant' style.
Wondering if I will be able to get away with a standard Scat single spring set,
If I run those ac.net aluminum pushrods??

I really like steel pushrods.
Haven't run a set of aluminum pushrods in -years-.
Love doing perfect loose zero valve adjustments by spinning an elephant foot..
Love that quiet 100% lash-free startup..
Also read that blue book so many times; that one that says even an E110 needs dual springs..
Dag, those guides are loose enough already in those crappy heads even without cutting the bosses.

so,
Not sure what to get WRT spring/retainers/pushrods.

Would love the efficiency of single springs,
Even if it means aluminum pushrods (I guess).

But won't singles float the valves with all of that cam on stock rockers??

Anybody know of a single set that's heavier than another?
Some target seat pressure I might shoot for?

Any input is welcome.
I'm ready to buy some pushrods and a spring kit and slap this thing together!
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[calvinater]

How about Dans beehive springs , dunno maybe too much Pressure. Glad to see your back at it.
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"Albatross"!

[jpaull]

Only .422 with 1.1's, your single springs should be fine. I have singles currently on a cam with .460 lift in my daily.

Pushrods are like oil questions. Everyone has their definite opinion. 035 chromos are not much heavier the HD aluminums. After cutting both HD aluminum and .035 chromos to length and seeing how much more the aluminums flex, im not into them anymore.

[Alstrup]

Springs. - Regular Scat HD´s at 1,460" installed will work well with this combo. Use HD aluminum PR´s if the budget allows.
Keep it as close to 9-1 as possible. 0,030" is too tight IMHO" 0,040 is good.

Your exhaust side in the heads are most likely too efficient now in relation to the intake. Especially if you will be using a 1½" exhaust. The classical split lift procedure will help the engine overcome that.

T

[Alstrup]

[jpaull]

[Clatter]

Thanks for the replies, guys. Much appreciated.

Have a box of pushrods and springs and retainers and adjusters here lying about.
Hope to have a big 'weight weenie' session with all of them shortly..


While the aluminum pushrods might save 10g, you can get that back by using stock lifters vs. Scat (on the pushrod side of the rocker as well).
Then there's those CBs or the tool steel..

Also, the difference you get with chromo retainers,
The added weight of swivel feet, vs. Lash caps,
Ti retainers,
These things all add up,
Especially cost-wise

For this motor here,
It all seems kinda silly,
But fun to think about, nonetheless.


One of the things I'm looking at right now on the ac.net site,
Is that they show a set of 'better' singles for a few more bucks than the Scats.
Thinking that's the way to go,
However,
Last time I got those,
They sent me some Bugpack springs, and they were indeed a bit bigger/heavier than the Scats,
but,
the retainers fit sloppy onto the spring,
not with a slight interference like the Scats..

So,
how important is it that the springs are a slight interference fit to the retainers?

I always thought this was important to control harmonics..

Plus,
Pushing the limits of what the springs can control,
And floating them a 'lot',
It might suddenly get really important that the spring is kept under full control/retained?

??
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[Alstrup]

[Clatter]

Does it matter if the spring is held captive by some interference to the retainer?

I’m guessing so..
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[74 Thing]

Less harmonics if it fits tight. My Berg single HD and their retainers snapped in.

There are lots of options for single HD from Oteva to using the outer CB650 spring, to the Berg, or the Scat single HD, to the Norris with the dampner for harmonics (and I have a set of Bugpack Single HD for sale as well). Lots of info here:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=641164&highlight=oteva

There are also beehives as an option...
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/SearchResults.asp?Search=beehive

[modok]

The tight fitting retainer is good practice, but as a matter of priority I'd say it's.....not highly important. When you compress a spring it expands in that dimension. So, since the spring expands when compressed, the difference between snug and slightly loose in your hand, is actually.....no big difference when it's running. And the same is true of the guide bosses too BTW.
You can make those a TIGHT fit, so the springs have to squeese over them a bit,, and it works fine, does not rub itself to death like one might expect it would. And, I'd put that at equal importance too. Right up there with inclination. basically, none of it's ever ideal with the cheap stuff.

[Clatter]

Welp, some more 1776 stuff happened...

Took and dug some old springs up from the stash;
These were a few used parts saved from low-mileage motors.

The taller springs are some Empi(?) singles new,
With used Scat singles in the middle,
Plus some Berg duals on the bottom, used, and used quite a bit.
They all had the exact same wire diameter, oddly enough..

The Scats always fit the retainers somewhat snugly when new,
But these somewhat-slightly-used (on an E100) Scat singles no longer fit the retainers without slop.
The new Empi(?) springs had some with a bit of interference to the Scat retainers,
and others, not so much..

The Berg duals, while they had many miles prior on an E110,
Still had a nice, tight fit on the retainers, both inner and outer.

So there you go.. Not only do the springs expand outward when compressed during use, Like 'Modok' said,
They also expand outward on the OD when worn.

Those springs were tight to those same retainers when installed.
So there you have it.

I decided to use the new springs with the Scat retainers.


Deciding on keepers - used, burr-ed up Scats,
or gamble ($6.95! ) on some Bugpack retainers?

A test-fit or three should give us a clue if they will play well together.
I'm thinking a different brand, vs. worn, is better..?


I sure do like the oiling built into those Courier Mazda ball feet.
Regular elephant Porsche swivel feet get no internal oil!

If your rockers have been clearanced for regular elephant feet:

The oil holes might not be in the right place for the ball feet oiling:

So that brings up some decisions WRT geometry;
More on that later..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?