Auto trans in 68-71 Bay window ??

[tinlizard]

Does anyone have experience with installing an auto trans in an early (68-71) Bay window? If not experience, solids ideas and theories would help.

I have no interest in discussing why I want to do this, or whether it's a good/bad idea (unless the whether is technical). Not wishing to be an *hole, it's just that all the previous threads I can find seem to degenerate to this off-topic angle.

It seems as if the type 3 auto would be the easiest swap. Any ideas?

Thanks!

Dave
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68 Beetle Vert
70 Single Cab
79 Transporter

[Abscate]

Are you sure you can get CV joints and axles the right lengthS , with a capital S, for this conversion? That could be a crashing halt.
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.ssS!

[airschooled]

Transaxle output flanges are easy enough to swap. If I was installing a used trans, I would have them off to replace the output seals anyway.

Type 3 auto might be one way to go, but what about an early (003?) automatic from a 73-75(?) bus? The input shaft would need to be shortened, and a vacuum hookup plumbed in, but it might be easier, since it was made for a bus.

Wasted Youth has an excellent thread documenting the rebuild of one, so you can see all about the parts included and how they fit in.

Robbie
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Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
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[pioneer1]

shifter cables are NLA so you'd need a complete donor. Would you also use a pancake engine?
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"Always waiting for tomorrow ruined everything"

'85 Porsche 911 Targa

'76 Westfalia project

[tinlizard]

I could get long/short T3 axles, but haven't confirmed whether they would be a proper fit.

003 is certainly a possibility, if it's the better way to go.

Parts sourcing can be accomplished, I think, whatever I may need. I will use a stock ( but bumped to 1904cc) upright engine in the bus.

I'll search for Wasted Youth's post right now.
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68 Beetle Vert
70 Single Cab
79 Transporter

[danfromsyr]

to retain the T-1 engine, you'll need the T-III automatic flexplate as it's unique to a 1600 automatic fitment.

you'll either need to source a 'universal' case or hog out a hole in the DS face of the T-1 motor flange to access the 3 flexplate to torque converter bolts.

you;ll need the automatic from most any year bay. even aircooled vanagon. so 73-83. you can use a Waterboxer at but the cooler may interfere with the mounting into a Bay.

you'll need bay bus automatic driver & passenger axle shafts, they are unique and specific differing lengths

the T-III automatic willhave too high of a R&P unless you build up a much more powerful motor.

you will need to figure out the shifting cable, and the throttle linkage.. later AT 76-83 the throttle linkage is tied into the kickdown function of the automatic.

73-75 uses vacuum and an electric switch on the throttle pedal to facilitate in kick down..
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[airschooled]

I asked about putting a late model bug auto-stick in an early bay a few weeks ago, but most people just heckled me so I took my beer and went home.

Robbie
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Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com

[KentABQ]

[Abscate]

Tough crowd when the band together to heckle you, kick you down the stairs, force you to convert, tell you your shafts are too short, and drink your beer
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[sodbuster]

[TomWesty]

My concern with the T3 tranny would be longevity. A bus is significantly heavier than any T3. I’m sure they didn’t engineer the T3 tranny for any more load than what was needed. I guess if you had the correct gear ratios to move a bus and drove smoothly and conservatively it might last a while....
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Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!

[tinlizard]

Thanks, Danfromsyr!!! Exactly the kind of info I'm after.

So T3 flexplate, T2 auto axles, for sure. Sounds like 73-75 T2 trans would be best since the shift/linkage picture is simpler.

My calculation says the T2 auto is almost exactly the same as the manual, final drive-wise. 4.35 auto vs 5.37 x .82 = 4.40 for the manual.

Does anyone know whether the chassis-mounted shift linkage tube is different auto vs. manual? Can't tell from the Bentley.
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68 Beetle Vert
70 Single Cab
79 Transporter

[Amskeptic]

[danfromsyr]

he's definately going to have some obstacles..

the front trans mount is a good point but hardly too tough an obstacle.. well unless he can't or doesn't know anyone who can fabricate some.

in a friends 73 bay automatic, we made a new front transmission mount using a round vanagon front mount and some heavy angle steel and a welder.. wasn't difficult. and allowed for a better front mount.. though that 73 bus had the over the bellhousing engine carrier mount too.
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[tinlizard]

I agree, guys, bit of an obstacle. But I'm only a few miles from Rusty Bottom Garage in Smyrna, TN, and Billy has good ideas and mad skills. I think we can hang the nose safely and securely.
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68 Beetle Vert
70 Single Cab
79 Transporter

[danfromsyr]

you'll spend most time figuringout the throttle, shifter electrical and vacuum linkages.

but as FYI, on our front mount, we moved the vanagon round part ahead of the rear torsion and then made the trans to mount bracket reach upto the vanagon mount.
as there is very little room between the transmission and the torsion tube.

the front mount is for the driveline to push against in a fore/aft location.
the rear mustache bar is for the side to side twist force.

ok, I did a little google-fu on the type3 automatic engine case.
you'll need to relieve the Type1 case in a similar fashion at the bottom of the bellhousing to access the flexplate to torque converter bolts. unless you source a T-III automatic 1600cc engine complete and convert it to upright cooling.

and a pic of a T-III flexplate

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[tristessa]

[tinlizard]

Thanks to everyone who contributed! Next step for me is to begin sourcing pieces/parts.

Still looking for an answer as to whether the long tube under the chassis that holds the shifter rod for manual trannys is the same and in in the same location as the one that the auto cable runs through.
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68 Beetle Vert
70 Single Cab
79 Transporter

[danfromsyr]

personally I would build around and source a Morse style push-pull cable for this vs sourcing the rare and hardly ever pulled for parts stock bit.

I offer these ideas as I've the same plan myself.
well an automatic in a 71 bay, but not with a air cooled motor
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[WestyPop]

Just a thought, since the torque converter heat does migrate into the engine case, as well as the tranny... the waterboxer Vanagon automatic trans cases have taps for external ATF cooling, instead of the (overrated IMHO) air-cooled converters of the Type 2 & 80-82 Vanagon bus automatics.

As far as gearing, with a 1904cc (stroker) engine, you might even do better with a slightly higher ring & pinion ratio to keep the cruising RPMs down.
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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
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J.R.
68 Westy
(+ others)