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Lil Lulu Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2007 Posts: 1745 Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:01 pm Post subject: Rear wheel alignment |
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The Bentley says rear wheel alignment can only be done with opto equipment. Is there a DIY method. Both of the outfits I tried were like NOPE. _________________ '65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Anything is possible with enough creativity. You'll need a long straightedge (6'+) as well as a good protractor, a pair of bare rims wouldn't hurt either but some very accurately sized blocks attached to the straightedge to touch the rim lip instead of the tire could do the same thing.
Put the straightedge on the rear wheel with the long end facing forward and measure the distance to a front jack point or fender lip you can duplicate on the other side, then repeat on the other side. You'll also need something to do the same thing vertically (that's where the protractor is handy). After that it's all math. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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To me the bigger question is not where to adjust it to but how to get it there. In other words my alignment shop told me my right rear wheel has negative camber
They didn't know how to adjust it so off I went back home wondering if it's possible. I got out the Bentley and it looks like you loosen the bolts on the spring plate and twist whatever that bar is with the worn out rubber bushings using a pipe wrench. Then tighten the bolts on the spring plate back up.
In my case I'd be happy to just get that wheel close to spec because I can look at it when the bus is sitting on the ground and see the negative camber. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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jtauxe Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2004 Posts: 5778 Location: Los Alamos, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Aren't buses and bugs sort of known for that rear wheel negative camber look? _________________ John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Shortly after I got my bus about 18 months ago, Telford and I raised the rear by rotating the torsion bar. A few months later I went to the alignment shop. That's when I learned about the negative camber on the right rear. I might have caused it when I raised the rear end, I don't know. It's on my list of things to do when I have time for my own bus. Hopefully in a month or so when I finish my current restoration job. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 16801 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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they are being lazy.
I have tried to twist the diagonal arm. I'm a big dude...me doing chin ups on a pipe wrench couldn't move one.
you can use camber shims between the arm and the hub housing. back when I did alignments it added a ton of time, and no one wanted a 200.00 alignment so seldom did I do it.
you may have better luck, but twisting the arm moves it kind of elliptically on the end that bolts to the spring plate, thus twisting the spring plate to move the camber _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Good info, thanks _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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make sure the rear ride height is correct on both sides with all 4 new donuts. If the height is off the resting camber will be too. I used a good level to level the bus on a pair of jack stands then with a floor jack raised the front at the center until the level showed perfectly level, then did each rear side after replacing the donuts with known good quality ones (genuine VW ones). When it went to two alignment shops the rear camber and toe were perfect. (I watched including one with old fashioned bubble gauges. Have to mark the hubs against the spring plates to get them back into the exact same position before taking things apart. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51057 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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SGKent wrote: |
..... Have to mark the hubs against the spring plates to get them back into the exact same position before taking things apart. |
Assuming the bus has never been hit, starred in the bus jump video or dismantled/remantled by someone who didn't understand that the position mattered, I usually make corresponding chisel marks on the plate and housings in case I get all sandblasty on it and remove any faint scribe marks.
Try replacing all the rubber, the donuts as Steve suggests as well as the arm bushings, 9X out 10 it'll solve the camber issue. While you have it apart clean everything up and drown it all in neverseez, that way if you have to twist an arm to alter the camber there's a chance an average guy can move it without a 6 foot pipe wrench. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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The donuts were replaced. I need to do the arm bushings. The spring plates had witness marks from the past 40 years so I’m sure they went back correctly _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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If a bus is level side to side and the ride height is stock and correct, the camber readings should be close from side to side.
If one side has more negative camber, like 1* more, check the radius arm rubber bushing. If it's shot, the camber will be more negative. If the rubber bushing is ok, then suspect something being bent, like the radius arm.
When I aligned these bay buses in the early to mid 80s, they had negative camber but it was designed in from the factory. I can't recall any inside tire wear from the negative camber as long as the toe was set correctly.
Colin discussed this negative camber on bay buses and suggested it shouldn't be a tire wearing cause in more detail than I'm providing. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Bill,
Don’t you need to do a business trip to Vista soon? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Lil Lulu Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2007 Posts: 1745 Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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Posted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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When you say back to spec. What’s spec.? Plumb?
Any idea of the part #s for the donuts? I’ll probably have to order by part# from VW if they even have them. Anything for a bay bus they don’t even know where to look.
By eyeball the camber is not negative but right tire wore much more on the inside than the outside. I now have all new Hankooks and I don’t want them to do the same. _________________ '65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16922 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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lil-jinx wrote: |
Donuts= tires,I think. |
Nope, these:
VWC-211-511-245-4 - SPRING PLATE BUSHINGS INNER & OUTER 4 PIECE SET - BUS 55-79
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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lil-jinx Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013 Posts: 1109 Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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Lil Lulu Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2007 Posts: 1745 Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Guess I should have used the proper terminology....spring plate bushings. I’ve been considering replacing them since I’ll have the bus off the road for a month while I replace my flywheel end seal and o ring. And thanks for the #s areomech.
I rotate the tires every 7500 miles. Only 4 wheel rotation tho, front to back. I realign the fronts every 10,000 or if I hit a bad chuckhole, which happens often if you drive in Idaho at all. (Got nothing against Idahoans at all, just shitty roads.) _________________ '65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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aeromech wrote: |
Bill,
Don’t you need to do a business trip to Vista soon? |
I actually had a quick trip to San Marcos in late December. I'm going back again in a few weeks. I'll text ya. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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69BahamaYellow Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2011 Posts: 535 Location: Talbott, TN
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Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Rear wheel alignment |
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Just bought some new rear tires, so I checked alignment also. After measuring, I was 3/4" higher on one side than the other and camber was way too negative on both tires.
So, I bought new torsion arm bushings and reset angles. Thought you all would appreciate knowing that rotating the inner side of the torsion bar 1 tooth counterclockwise and rotating the torsion arm 1 tooth down on the outer side of the torsion bar will lower ride height .12". That's important, because many angle meters, can't resolve angles with that much accuracy. so if you need to raise one side .5", then 4 teeth on each end in opposite directions will just about get you there.
I also found that setting the rear fender arches at 24" from the ground on both sides makes my bus completely level front to rear.
Finally, I found that rear camber is just about perfect if you set the bottom of the brake drum .14" in from the top, when the torsion arms are setting on the lower stops (but make sure the center of each axle is the same height off the ground when measuring this; I found this out the hard way when my jack stands were not exactly the same height on each side...)
when you have the 4 bolts on the diagonal arm loosened, you can adjust the rear camber quite a bit by using a pipe wrench on the diagonal arm. Put a wrench on the diagonal arm and torque it counter clockwise and you can add significant positive camber before the bolts are tightened. Torque it clockwise and significant negative camber can be added. |
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