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sshulk
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 Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them?
Im regarding the type 4 engines
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Howard 111
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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Same reason people buy parts made by EMPI or buy engines from GEX.
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Glenn
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mark tucker
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Joined: April 08, 2009
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Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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shit for brains??  just kiden, some of them work ok. some dont work so good.the ones that dont work so good can be alturd to work beter...there are/were a few diferent manufacturs of them.mostly there used because they look good. and then you have a porschea...(no not ellens wife) or ..... |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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Most people do things because they saw somebody else do it.
There were quite a few REAL race machines with porsche fans in the 70's-80's, generally with a corvair, porsche, or type-4 engine underneath, or some custom job with heads made of 40% weld that hardly resembled whatever it started out as.
I think people saw that and figured....that must be the ticket! But they missed the DETAILS, of the how and why. Especially the ducting.
You want to get the most cooling using the LEAST HP wasted to drive the fan and with what they were doing, that might have been a good idea, but for whatever reason people don't look at it that way.
Like the GOL, being front engined, at higher speeds it was getting a degree of ram air to assist the fan. OH YEAH that does work great, IF THE ENGINE IS POINTED THE OTHER WAY 
If you want to do ram air with a rear engine car, makes more sense to have the fan inlet pointed forward. duh |
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modok
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Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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If the car goes fast enough, with the right ducting it may not even need a fan at all 
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sshulk
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Joined: August 29, 2008
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Location: Succasunna, NJ
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| modok wrote: |
If the car goes fast enough, with the right ducting it may not even need a fan at all
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21507
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| sshulk wrote: |
if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them?
Im regarding the type 4 engines |
We went over this already didnt we.... in your engjne thread?
Just pointing out ....but you appear be trying to talk yourself into one.  Thats not a good thing.
The....few.....people who use them successfully have the correct rpm and gearing application for them to work....and to do that.....they have done the diligence and testing ....to set up the system to their engine....including the REQUIRED internal modification to cooling vanes, correct pulley diameter ratio, correct number of blades and therefore insure correct fan rpm at their peak running speeds.....and most importantly.....the correct fan static pressure inside of the shroud
The rest of the people who put one of these on a 4 cylinder engine.....which they were not made for.....do not have proper cooling....so their shit just looks cool....but is not cool heat wise.
So unless you plan to do road racing with your type 4 at sustained speeds....and plan to spend the time and money to do all of that R & D for your vehcile......the Porsche 911 shroud ia not what you want.
If anyone....ANYONE....tries to sell you a 911 style shroud without mentioning all of what I said above...and claim it will bolt right up and work...they are full of sh*t..... or just out for $ and assuming you will work all of that out.
The DTM and other similar upright shrouds.....are not dirt cheap because they have gone the extra mile to make sure they WORK.....and not just look cool. The function of the cooling shroud is not too look cool....its to actually COOL your engine.
In most cases on a type 4 engine....the upright 911 shroud either over cools or under cools the engine depending on fan blade number, shape/size and pulley ratio.
Also....comparatively few people actually use the 911 style shroud.
What Modok said is pretty correct. There were....and are....actual serious cars that use the 911 style shroud....including the 911 obviously.....but the engine and everything attached ti it....and the shroud were specifically engineered to work together....and that does not always mean they worked perfectly.
Ray |
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Wreck
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Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1216
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| For the same reason women wear high heel shoes |
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26776
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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It's not so bad on a type-4, since the type-4 MOST of the cooling fins are vertical, but not all. Type-1 it just makes NO sense.
You don't just blow air at the fins, you want to move air through them. Look at a 911.... the heads are square, cylinders square, and most of the fins are on the SIDES, so it makes sense. VW heads have fins on the top and bottom, and the cylinders are ROUND, the aftermarket shrouds neglect to hug the head and cylinders so the air goes all through ALL the fins.
If you have a fan that is made to move 2x the air.....you need somewhere for all the air to go. How about add fins?
Last edited by modok on Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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sshulk
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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I might be going to use the DTM, Cali Conversion, or a Porche Shroud. But I was genuinely curious why people use the porsche shroud, even though most of the time it doesn't work as well I meant other than looks
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Last edited by sshulk on Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76884
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| Wreck wrote: |
| For the same reason women wear high heel shoes |
Because it gives me a boner?
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
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Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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Why do the poor kids wear their pants around their knees?
Is that to slow em' down when the cops are chasing em?  |
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KTPhil
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Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 33986
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| modok wrote: |
If the car goes fast enough, with the right ducting it may not even need a fan at all
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It's the Fittipaldi 3200!!
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| if the $ was right I wood run the porch fan assy.that I wood rework befor using, but untill it's less $ than the stuff out there now Ill stick to the 36 style stuff. as for the DTM setup.....I would rather have a empi shroud |
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Wreck
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Joined: July 19, 2014
Posts: 1216
Location: Brisbane
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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my own design centre shroud blowing down the centre of the cylinders .
using factory tin as a mould, so the air is forced between the fins . Runs cooler on a HIpo 2.6 than my sharpe 911 does on a low comp 2.3 .
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Onceler
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Posts: 1646
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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Depends on your definition of "works". I've never seen long term tests, just assumptions when compared to other shrouds
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modok
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Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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| Very nice. I'd like to make something similar in shape, so I can fit my big supercharger on there. |
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Onceler
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Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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The dtm is supposed to be the ultimate shroud but doesn't even have thermostat and flaps that must be installed to even make your way out of the garage  wtf ever
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KTPhil
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| Posted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: if the porche fan shrouds are "so bad" why do people use them? |
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Well, if we've learned nothing else from 2017, just because a lot of people think something is a good idea doesn't mean it's actually a good idea in reality.
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