restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump

[PHYZ]

So glad ....
thank you for the info!!
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Justus from Germany

[PHYZ]

Hi everyone,
here are the final pictures of the repair from the under body side.
As I said we layed 3 final layers on the flat floor and also on the back wall with the top layer to mimic traditional glass fibre structure and the others being "knitted" and offering more structural support (taking loads in all axis).
Finally I painted the area satin black (just a first coat)
We are quite happy and will now approach the cut out from the air filter and some last details from below before finally and hopefully by the end of the week we will flip the body around and start the upside preparation for repair and paint.
Thank you all for your encouragement so far and the great support.
By the end of the week the welded floor pan will also e back in the shop and we will start working on that and rebuilt of front axle in parallel.
Will post pictures of course as we go along.
Have a great day in the US and wherever you may be.

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Justus from Germany

[squareweave]

Looks great! I love how you spent the extra time and matched up the glass matting to look like it has never been repaired from the bottom as well. I'll be following this build.

[PHYZ]

Thank you for your kind words squareweave.
Original is my target
Only exeption is safety (brakes and engine monitoring) and power but the engine could have been built that exact way in 1968...
Will post more tomorrow.
All my best
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Justus from Germany

[surfnc]

Beautiful work Justus! Any pictures of the inside?
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[Heyuqt1]

Looks amazing!!! It's incredible how much time you have spend to make the "bottom" look good. I spent more time on the bottom and sides than the actual top side with paint. Mine had set outside in the sun for most of it life so the fiberglass has started to deteriorate and I had to sand and and completely recover with resin. I learned a lot about doing fiberglass by the end. It would have been much easier to buy a new body rather than try to resurrect an old one but that would have taken the "fun" and pride out of the build. Your body is really starting to take shape. Believe me driving it for the first time is so worth the wait and time spent. What a blast to drive and everybody wants to ask questions and look it over. I can't wait for summer!! Good luck and keep up the great work

[surfnc]

Justus,
Here is a link to a restoration I did where I repaired the license plate area:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=498451&highlight=

I uses cardboard covered in wax paper to support the glass layup.
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[PHYZ]

@ Heyuqt1:
thank you for your kind words. We are trying not to "round corners". Some restaurations you see especially in some US TV shows I cannot understand that they spent so much money and effort on all things visible but refuse to do "hidden parts" properly even if they had held them in their hands for mechanical repair- why not use the opportunity to derust and respray...?
Finally they end up with a car that would need to be disassembled completely if you would want to have a proper classic. To my understanding that is the difference between restoration and repair. We ahve spent and are spending so much time and money on this Buggy I want it to be flawless in the end. I am convinced the people actively contributing to this thread all work alike, at least from what I have seen from all your pictures.
By the way the only really good guy I have seen on TV so far is Chip Foose - but then again not everything is available in German Television..
@ Vince
Thank you again. Without your help it would not have been possible. We also adapted your tip of "Feathering and it worked out great.
Photos from the inside : once we turn it I will post and be brutally hones to myself and all of you
It will also require some rework in the moulded areas since with the battery bay we had the mishap that during laying the glass me being an idiot I supported the mould from beneath with a car jack and inevitably touched this fragile construction.. and the mould dropped and needed to be replositioned during the glassing process. Not visisble from the outside but inside it got us some air between mould and glass. Lesson learned. So when we attached your mould for the spare wheel bay we screwed it on the body. However our body as it had been repaired beyond the surface area your mould covered did not show a perfect matcht from the mould inside. So now we have some "steps and edges we will need to fix. Anyhow now the basis is solid and the "bulb at least has original shape and position so we will use that area as refernece to adapt the rest.
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Justus from Germany

[PHYZ]

Hey Vince,
thank you for your link to your previous restauration. Actually I had already found that conversation earlier when I was searching SAMBA for some tips on re- gelcoating.
Impressive work.
For the lincense plate area we took inspiration from you and also worked with card board but reversely. So we did put it outside and layed the first two layers inside to be flawless with the rest. we will finish that work today and paint and I will send photos.
After that we flip the body and start start working from the outside to the inside on battery, bulb and license plate area.

All my best
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Justus from Germany

[PHYZ]

Hello to all,
today we received back the welded chassis. We thought we'd put the body on to see how it fits.
To my opinion does not fit at all. Unfortunately I did not take pictures before disassembly but I have a feeling that the floorpan is within dimension. So my question is how much gap is normal for a manx, how to minimize, what should a good build look like?
I know there will be the rubber gasket inbetween but the gap in front and back is so big it is useless.
I cannot image Bruce designed this that way.
In the front the body is lying on the front end of the side panel..don't know how to put it in better words, if I add the gasket the gap around the Napoleon hat will be even higher. But then again I am unaware if Bruce instructed people to bolt it to the pan on the Napoleon hat and in the back.
I could not find photos that give me a clear idea.
I am thankfull for all your tips and tricks and photos.
All my best

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Justus from Germany

[hillmotorsports]

That fit is nt unusual for an older body that has been off the chassis for a while. They often distort. Some builders have found success by lightly clamping the body to the chassis and slowy tightening over a period of weeks. You should NOT hear cracking as you tighten.

Paul
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Rosemarie and Paul Hill
Morrisburg, Ontario

(With way more projects than spare time!)

[Heyuqt1]

I wish i would have taken more pictures during the madness! When i went to install my body after all the paint and body work i realized it looked just like yours. I did the basic body work and set it on the pan and never thought to really make sure it FIT. Imagine my suprise after all the long hours of restoring the body to the best of my ability and finding out I had your exact problems. At least you have time to do something about it. Mine had been in the sun so long it lost it original shape. Where the body bolts to the pan along the sides I made an .125 thick aluminum strip to aid in the strength along that part of the body while bolting down. In some spots I had to pull more than an inch. In the front where the body goes over the tunnel I used bar clamps, c clamps, two by fours, and a whole lot of cussing. I even had to use a bar clamp from side to side because the body was 2 inches wider than the pan. The way I looked at it was, At one time the body fit so it must be possible for it to go back. Im sure someone on here has an unmolested Manx that could take some pictures of your problem ares to see if they look like yours as well. I am curious too about if Bruce actually made them "fit" bad like this or if is just because of all the years that have passed exposing the fiberglass to the elements and deforming it the way ours are. That is one thing I wish I could change on my finished project. All four "corners" of the body where it bolts to the pan seem like they are too "Round". The pan corners stick out past the body because they are more square and the body are more round. I wish I would have known about these forums seeing the exact problems I had. Even the part around the license plate. I tried to find a manx to make a mold for that particular area but came up with nothing so I made that area out of aluminum and powder coated it. I think I actually like the look better than stock but its definately not original now. It is awesome to see these projects and know I was not alone in my adventure. Thanks to all that post with great ideas and thoughts............Good luck to all....Steve

[joescoolcustoms]

Polyester resin shrinks it's whole life. These old bodies are now 40 to 50 years old and have shrunk a lot.

I have cut and split several then glassed in the cuts to "re-size" the body back to VW spec's. Some have even sagged in the rear to where I have had to build a wedge body lift so the package trey area does not ride on the trans bellhousing.

Bruce did make them to fit the VW chassis. His new bodies fit the chassis dead on. But give them 40 years and they too will shrink.

Just part of working a old, original body. I make my chassis fit the body so they do not stress crack later.

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Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone

[surfnc]

Justus,
This is a common problem as has been said.

I have had it to one degree or another on the 6 Manxes I have restored and the 2 clones I did as well. The fiberglass tends to pull in the sides of the body and push the center up.

I usually do my work in the warmer months and can leave the body out in the sun and use bolts, 2X4 lumber and clamps to bring it down over a few days to a weeks time. (a few turns at a time)

I have seen some people cut and section the fiberglass to get it to fit better. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures of what I did. I will see what I can find since I believe it has been covered on the forum.
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[surfnc]

Here are a few threads that might help:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=650936&highlight=fitment

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=670116&highlight=body+fit

Joe has done some excellent work in this area and has some examples in the first thread.
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[PHYZ]

Everybody,
thank you for your good advise.
We have been starring it down ... now for a couple of days and nights and I also consulted my boat building friends.
A plastical deformation of about 5% should be doable however over time the the body will want to go back. Vince, as you said it is shrinking for lifetime anyhow.
I am fine with the way the sides line up, the Buggy body is exceeding the chassis inside and outside and is also pretty much parallel. One could say that the bolts would actually be on a centered line along the buggy body- so I do not want to push it outside there.
The front over the napoleon head is also paralleling the napoleon head quite nicely at a distance of about the thickness of the original VW body gasket (uncompressed). This area could only be moved down by actaully grinding out the lower front corners of the body and I do not want to do that.
Finally the backside looks really bad, not parallel and huge gap.
That is what we have decided to attack with all necessary means.
Next week I will bring my heat gun from home (since we do not have the sun here to do the job...) and start clamping it down.

Overall length seems ok for me. The body is shorter than the pan but overall maybe just 15mm. I have no clearance issues front or back .
So to summarize: The back we will try and deform and/ or laminate /cut if necessary and then do some nice and clean gasket work in front and back (double the layer) THis way we hope not to buy a clean fit with later surprises on the Gel Coat if the body works against its pre- load.
Fortunately the fitting is way better than the one of "EVfun" to which Vince provided the link.
Once we think it is ok we will post pictures and ask you guys for approval .
meanwhile this week we will finish the "underworld" and of course post pictures of it.
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Justus from Germany

[PHYZ]

Today I heard from Vince that his mould returned safely to him. Thank you again!! Here is what we did with it from the inside and also a photo of battery bay inside. Now we will have to do some sanding and plaster works..
Worked out really well!

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Justus from Germany

[PHYZ]

Funny, I just re-read the original build instructions from Bruce.
looks like he actually designed the body "to be bended " upon assembly..

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Justus from Germany

[PHYZ]

What exactly is the area described "... between the tunnel and the forward end of the floor.."
I am unsure. Could somebody post a picture and mark it?
That would be great.
Have a great day everybody.
All my best
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Justus from Germany

[Heyuqt1]

I finally got the blessings of the CHP and the DMV today. It's time to party!! I can finally drive my pride and joy legally. I thought building the car was the hard part... NOT! Thanks to some of the samba members and their posts I was able to "convince" the very nice officer that my car is a Volkswagen. He wanted me to register as a "new construction" vehicle. I read plenty of posts from other members not to EVER do that in California. If you do it that way it has to be smogged to the standards they come up with. I don't even know if that is possible but I know with all the aftermarket parts and a home built gas tank it would never pass no matter how much money I threw at it. Anyhow it's great to see all the pictures and posts about the trials and tribulations of building a buggy!! What an amazing feeling to know that I am finally legal and much thanks to my wife for dealing with it at DMV to finish the process.. good luck to all you builders out there!!