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restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump
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PHYZ
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:47 am    Post subject: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Hello to everyone, my name is Justus and I am new to this forum. I already found a lot of valuable information here and I am hoping you good people might help me solve an issue.
My Meyers Manx MK1 is currently under restoration ( by myself Very Happy ) and unfortunately somebody previously did a bad job in repairing the molded sump in the spare wheel compartment by making it dissappear Crying or Very sad ...
I need to remodel it. I am sure one or the other member came across a similar problem since this area seems to be damaged quite often on older bodies.
It would be great if someone could post photos of that area intact from inside, outside / front, side and top view maybe with a dollar bill in it or something that gives me an indication for size.
Any help is highly welcome.
A few words to the project:
it is a MM 1 from Febr 1968 certified and sitting on a 62 floorpan.
The project is being done in Wolfsburg Germany. The plan is to use the best NOS parts available and easy accessable in Germany. I am working with VW so I can also get some privilidged information...
The engine will be done by a company called Kummetat. He was already around in the 60ties and 70 ties and has the best reputation in Germany for high power Type 1 engines. Also VW and Porsche trust him with their historical engine restorations and tuning.
The floorpan is currently being welded at VW classic division and we are preparing the bits and pieces but also the body.
The plan is to re-gel coat -- not paint.
Since the car is in bits n' pieces right now I attach pictures of my current problem but promise to post more on the progress of the restoration.
Thank you so much and I look forward to a good chat.
Best regards from the home of Käfer..
Justus
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PHYZ
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:53 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

By the way, the filler you see is old , we are taking everything back to a solid base line and fix previous repairs we do not like so much... the car had been painted Crying or Very sad so we sanded everything down to the origanl gelcoat and sometimes the pure glass fiber. Now we will sand some more in the identified repar areas and do glassing, filling ...
Still a long way to go but I have good support from boat building friends..
Have a great day
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surfnc
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Justus,
Welcome to the fun. I have fixed that area in a few Manx 1 restorations. I had a body that was good in that area and took a mold off it and used this process to fix it:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

If you cannot find a body to take a mold off I may be able to help you. Not sure what the shipping from North Carolina USA would be.

Looking forward to your build.

Vince
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PHYZ
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:34 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Vince,
thank you so much for your kind reply and also your offer to help with the mold.
I do not think there is another MK1 in Germany because they never have been street legal here ( I will have to do a lot of tricks to get it licenced..) and I have been looking very hard for one in Europe when I wanted to buy one. No chance...finally advertised in SAMBA and bought it from West Virginia Very Happy .
Of course having a mould would be perfect but I need to "re-create" a good 60% of the area since they repaired it so badly I have no reference area to place a small mould of the "bulb" only in the correct position. I would need to cut out (and rebuild) all the way up to the top and basically follow the "old" filler line you can see white on the picture. That would end up in a big mould to ship..so:
Searching the web for photos we found one last night that was done from almost straight above and we where able to do the same photo at our car, photo shopped them together and "transferred it to the car. Came out pretty handy. So we cut a hole and decided to rebuild the original shape around the bulb without cutting everything out.. Now what I do not know the the 3 dimensional form. To start with it would be of great help if you could take a detailed photo of the bulb with some reference to size, like a 1 dollar bill or marking mm on it with a pen. If I cannot take it from there then actually the last chance would be a mold.
If you could post some pictures that would be great..
Thank you so much and all my best to North Carolina

P.S. please excuse if I might be answering late. I do not always have email since I travell a lot for work.
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PHYZ
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Vince,
I just realized that you already took a mold of that area.
Could you post a photo of that mold?
I could then clarify potential shipping cost.
How much would you ask for the mold? It sure was a lot of work to build it..
Looking forward to your reply.

All my best
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Justus
Here you go

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Top view

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Bottom view

(click on image to enlarge it)

I have used it a few times which accounts for the bolt holes. I will take a picture of the mold in place so you can see if it will work for you. (later today I hope)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

The curve (for the shock tower) is used to "index" it to existing body.
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PHYZ
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Vince,
thank you so much for staying with me and my problem.
Looking at your mold and having slept on it a night I think it is the only correct way to go.
If you would be willing to send it I would start to arrange the necessary.
I have an account number at UPS / DHL (works best usually) and I think also FedEX. So it could be billed to recipient (me).
How much would you want for the mold itself to compensate a little for the trouble I cause you- and would you want me to send it back after I finished the job?
Hoping we can do this best regards from my home now...Baltic sea coast small town at the beach Very Happy
Unfortunately cold and dark from November to April....but then Cool Cool Cool
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

The area you live in sounds beautiful.

I would be willing to let you borrow it. Just pay for shipping to you then back to me. (like you said)

Do you need any other areas?

Headlight support comes to mind.

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They are pretty small and since you would be shipping one already. One or two more would not be a problem.

Vince
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Dear Vince,
thank you for your kind words, it is beautifull indeed- sometimes to me even more so in winter without all the tourists...
You said you live in North Carolina, I think that is also a beatifull place. I have been there as a kid with my parents in the early eighties...loved it.

The repair: thank you again for your kind offer and the photos. This is the only correct way to fix and I would like to do it.
Is there a way to exchange email adress by a boardmail? I have never done this in this forum.
On Monday I will be back in my company in Wolfsburg- there I would check the account number from FedEX and UPS or DHL. Do you have any preferences?
I would then exchange all necessary data by mail with you directly. OK?
Other than that the battery case has cracks in some corners but we could take a mould ourselves and will replace it next week.
Surprisingly the area for the lamps looks good. I sanded it down and swiped it with acetone but no cracks- even while acetone was still wet..
The license plate area (rear) had been cut like many for the carb. We will fix it with card board from behind as a surface to work against. No mouls required. The rest looks good , just some minor holes and cracked holes. we planned to repair the normal way.
Is it ok if we try and find a way to exchange email on Monday?
All my best and again many thanks-- have a great weekend.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

I PM'd you.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:16 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Looking forward to your restoration, what NOS parts are you planning to use?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Hi Mike,
thank you for your interest. Basically it is always our aim to use NOS rather than anything else and I think there is no part on the car we did not touch Very Happy
So first of course we try to repair- if that is not possible or fesable we would look for NOS or a good used part, if we cannot get it we try replacement from the same component manufacturer (sometimes they are still around like f.ex. brake cylinder), if that is not possible we talk to the "old Guys" and shops about the best replacement not from China...
For example our front achsle was bent by crash so we found an original new one that was in stock for 50 years, the new steering gear box is from the original Tier 1 supplier, the bearings / bushing and Tierods are aftermarket but high quality...
The steering column is a used part, same for the wiper mortor and so on...
THe floorpan has been welded with sheets that are also used by VW classic department.
Have a great weekend
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:45 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Hi Justus,

I would have to agree with you, I have always wanted to build a Meyers Manx using NOS or restored parts that are correct for that period. Did you start with a very original buggy?

Sounds like you have a great build ahead of you,
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Dear Mike,
thanks for your kind answer. About the original basis--well you never know, I think it is part of a buggy's life that every owner contributes his work to keep it alive and from that point of view it will always be "original". Very Happy
However our approach is to use the parts that could / would have been used for the first build.
As a reference we took the VIN from the floor pan and ordered the original spec from that car as it left the factory. We consider this to be the original "donor vehicle" and will use the corresponding parts for everything mechanical or update period correct (f.ex. the engine it will receive could have been built that way in 68.).
THe body had been "repaired " for the worse so we try to put it back in the original shape.
To our great luck people in this forum and especially Vince are kind enough to care and support us- even with moulding, that is a fantastic experience and I will do my very best in the future to act the same way.
Have a great day and good luck and courage to start your own project, it is a great experience.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Hi everybody,
here is an update of what we did during the last couple of days.
The battery bay looked bad with cracks and holes so we did a mold with plaster, reconstructed the bad areas, then cut the body and grinded everything to prepare glassing. Tomorrow is big clean up and we will start cutting the glass- then hopefully laminating on Wednesday.
If you have any advise feel welcome to post it Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

By the way, the red colour:
when we first filled the area with plaster we used a plastic bag as "release agent". So as a result the mould did not look very nice where the plastic had wrinkles...but overall it represented the minimum size we should use .
So before sanding it and reconstructing the edges missing and filling the gaps we painted it red to avoid making it too small. We just used a Zinkpaint that was standing around in the workshop. Worked great...
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Our plan is to wrap it in stretch foil because the plaster is sucking up every liquid. Then put PVA on it then lay the glass.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Nice job with the plaster. Looking forward to the final result.

Mike T
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: restoring manx MK1 in need of help with details on molded sump Reply with quote

Justus, you could cover it with a thin coat of spackle (dry wall patch material) then sand it smooth paint it with latex primer then use PVA. That should seal it up.

The foil will definitely work but may be hard to get it to lay flat. (contact cement under it?)

Just a thought.
Vince
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