Gowesty Bigger Brakes: Product Safety Notice

[Sodo]

Note there are cascading modifications here. Bigger steel wheels, then reduced stopping power which was restored by changing to bigger aftermarket brakes.

Every van owner has the option of returning to the OEM engineered combination of 14" wheels (steel or alloy) and OEM brakes. But if you've 'disposed' of these original items it makes 'going back' much more difficult. Or if you've become attached to your aftermarket steel wheels.

It's great that GoWesty has larger data-gathering ability and able to narrow the symptoms to steel wheels and perhaps over-tightened lugnuts.. And the ability to notify large number of van owners. Lets not extend their responsibility too far.

TO extend their liability to the person who might at future, install steel wheels is like extending it to someone who might overtighten lugnuts. Or crack the disc by overtightening just one. Or stress it by driving with one MISSING one lugnut. Or,,, or,,, or. the possibilities increase exponentially to the obvious answer of.......

....any modifications to OEM is too risky. OEM all the way!!
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[tencentlife]

[OB Rat]

Nothing really new in the world of vehicle modifications.

Pretty sure this is why manufactures' "warranties" are voided when you lift your 2018 Tundra and run 35"'s on the street, or lower your brand new Civic and add 18 degrees of negative camber to the rear to squeeze in a 9" wide rim...etc, etc.

Do these manufactures of aftermarket parts incur liability - sure - some. Does the shop that installed your lift kit incur liability - sure - some. In today's world of shifting blame for a possible mistake away from yourself - the finger pointing takes on a life of its own very quickly.

Obviously, if a vendor takes on the business of making (don't know who makes the GW rotor) and installing such a thing as brakes then even more so. Most probably bought an aftermarket brake kit with the intention of improving braking in the first place, in other words - to improve safety. Is the GW rotor made as an aftermarket rotor specifically for use on VW Vanagons?? Or, just an aftermarket rotor that GW decided "will work" with their kits??

But, I remember, back in the day, I built my '67 Beetle's engine into such a monster that I couldn't stop the car. I (actually my local speed shop) installed Porsche 930 turbo disc brakes which "solved" my problem. That said, I think if I had ran straight into a neighbors wall while foolishly drag racing down my street Porsche would probably not have accepted much liability, if any.

In today's world of civil litigation it is all about reducing the percentage of your, or your company's, responsibility. You can most likely not get out of all of it as most bad things that happen now days always has to be someone else's fault. In other words - it's all a grey area.

I hope very much that GW comes out ok. But, I hope even more that their customers stay safe and are taken care of as well.

[drj434343]

Some thoughts:

1. GW takes a risk selling mission critical parts like re-engineered brakes, brake lines, etc to install on 30 year old vehicles. We shouldn't reasonably expect they have the resources an OEM has when engineering a brake design. That means there is bigger chance that design flaws will emerge (like this one) over time.

2. We should recognize we are taking a risk when using parts like this.

3. The community of GW customers who have these parts should soberly consider how to proceed. As others have mentioned, if just a sliver of the legal ramifications were to hit GW, it could easily bury the company. It seems like as a customer, I have two options.
A: Choose to run the redesigned disc and spacer knowing full well it may not have removed all the risk of failure.
B: Remove the upgrade entirely, potentially ask for a refund, and run OEM instead.

4. If we want to continue to enjoy 3rd party vendors that engineer new parts for these vans, we have to carefully walk the line of safety and risk management. Too far in one direction and we'll shutter all the exciting products they offer with any hint of liability. Too far in the other direction and someone may get hurt.

[elizer]

If I were piece mealing a girling big brake kit on my own using parts I found at a pick n pull I would understand that I would be taking a risk.

If I am purchasing an upgraded big brake kit I think it is unreasonable to say hey you are taking a risk on this purchase. I don't want to feel like I am taking a risk when buying brake components. I think we are paying the extra cost of getting a put together kit so we don't have to worry about that stuff.

[tencentlife]

Precisely, Eli.
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[E1]

+1 on Eli's comments.

The comment from Lucas that stood out for me was, paraphrasing, "We've sold thousands of big brake kits." If he meant that to show stability over the product line, fine. But the idea of warranting those "thousands," time four brakes and rotors each, is staggering.

I do not wish them harm at all, rather I admire their tenacity but have long questioned when reading here and elsewhere if such things have been thoroughly tested (like my saggy lifter springs).

I've also long felt that supporting only the biggest players not only puts our parts streams at risk, but also makes it impossible for competitors to grow. And I mostly don't like any company's market share being too high.

The irony is any suggestions as such made here have met with mass resistance... until now. But I genuinely wish them -- and all who are affected by this mess -- the best.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[raoul mitgong]

If GoWesty originally advertised this big brake kit as-
"For use with allow wheels only or it will break (not brake)."

I don't think GW would have sold any kits.

I am certainly not a GW hater (a lover in fact) and want them to continue forever but this is not a decorative item, this is a safetly issue for the passengers and others on the road. My future van purchases will depend on how this plays out.

GoWesty's "alloy clause" seems like a business decision in hopes that those with alloys make the personal decision to not participate in a recall.
I wonder how the law reads on where liability would fall if the next owner put on steel wheels (unaware of this recall) and killed someone?

Even if it cost me full price to replace with another kit, I'd pull mine if I had them.

-d
_________________
84 Westy with a 2.1 (Groover)
86 Tintop Syncro (Crow)
86 Tintop Syncro to Westy project (Tom Servo)
91 Westy (Only the top 12 inches of this van (a burn victim))

[E1]

Pretty clear to me where the law would fall on the alloy clause...
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[crazyvwvanman]

That GW notice mentions that it also applies to 4wd/Syncro kits which means that the hub supplied with 2wd kits isn't the key element of the problem. To me that means fixing it with different hubs wouldn't be the correct approach. That leaves redesigning the rotor or implementing a spacer to give the needed extra clearance between the rotor and the wheel. So it sounds like they are trying to do the right thing in the best way possible. I'd love to closely compare one of the replacement rotors to a problematic one to see exactly what was done.

Mark

[Sodo]

[Christopher Schimke]

[termuehlen]

[kamzcab86]

This email should have been sent to all those who bought the Bigger Brake kit. They don't know what wheels are on the vans, only which owners bought the brakes.

That said, my van has 15" alloys and the only problem I've had is with a defective rotor (thumping problem that moved with the rotor when swapped). The replacement rotor eventually developed the same problem. In looking at the rotor, there was purple line seen through the wheel spokes. Sanding that line a bit diminished the thumping and eventually disappeared altogether as the rotor was worn in (others encountered the same issue, but swapping brake pads resolved their issue).

Don't know where they're made now, but my rotors were made in India.
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~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子

[E1]

I think you're saying you *did* buy the Bigger Brake kit, right Kam?

If so, your not being sent the letter is unacceptably uncool... while I've tried to be supportive of GW here, I'm finding it increasingly harder to do so.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[kamzcab86]

[E1]

A likely excuse which I'm inclined to accept.

(Kidding of course, hope the pain is manageable!)

Good to hear you got the email, Thanks.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[benandmj]

I'm happy with how GoWesty is handling it thus far.

I just placed an order with them and left a note to include my replacement rotors and spacers to offset shipping costs and show my support.
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85 Westfalia Weekender
91 Syncro Westy

[skills@eurocarsplus]

as a guy who has done probably 20, maybe 30K brake jobs in my automotive career I can tell you this....

some janky spacer is NOT a solution. the hat section on the rotor must sit flush on the mounting pad of the hub.

most don't know (or never noticed) but when you look at OEM brakes, the distance between the hub pad and the o/d of the rotor hat is usually 5-7mm
(if you live in the rust belt, you've probably cursed this as you beat the hell out of the rotor to remove it)

this sounds like a perfect storm for litigation. they probably use some off the shelf rotor....I can't imagine they have them "made" for them. if they do, they should have had the hat section close to the hub.....even at that, it's a Band-Aid.

the real fix is a hub that backs up the hat section of the rotor. if they were smart, they would issue a recall and refund everyone the purchase price of the parts. all it takes is one accident to clean them up in court, and sue them straight off the planet
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[bokonon42]

Dont mean to thread-hijack, but I have some 16" steel wheels (from another company) on stock brakes. I had one of the wheels come off on me (thankfully I was only going like 10mph at the time and I heard them squealing before pulling safely to the side as the lugs snapped and the wheel came off. I took it to a VW specialist shop and they had seen the problem before with these steel wheels. It was due to the powder coating on them. It doesn't let the lug nuts bite into them properly.

Not exactly the same problem, but when people start blaming these steel wheels, it makes my ears perk up... these definitely aren't the safest choices for our vans.
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Terry
88 Vanagon Wolfsburg Carat - https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=671319