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Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap)
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appetite
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:27 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Thanks so much for the photos and description of the mounts. That's a great solution.

Cheers!

James
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

appetite wrote:
Thanks so much for the photos and description of the mounts. That's a great solution.

Cheers!

James


Glad to help!
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Made a big step forward on the Subaru swap. This weekend I successfully cut down the Forester harness and trimmed it down to just what was needed for the engine. All in all not too difficult, but I do consider myself above average on this kind of stuff. I have an honest 8hrs into the cut down. Its not difficult, but it is tedious, and something you have to be very detail oriented with.

Here is where I started. Put an old sheet down on my "work bench" since this is the messy part of getting through all the old electrical tape and coverings.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It's really just a process of going circuit through circuit, connector to connector, and wire to wire, removing what is not needed, and preserving the rest. Not something that can be rushed.

This is what the harness looked like after cutting out all the unneccesary stuff, and it was now ready to test.

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As you can see, you loose a lot of bulk from the harness. Here is the reject pile. Got some good jumper wire to salvage before the rest of it hits the bin.

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After getting is all cut down, I carried it out back to the donor, temporarily fed it 12V power, hooked the fuel pump back up, and gave it a go. It fired right up. What a relief.. Laughing


Link


All in all it runs well, but I do have two active codes to fix yet.

P1116 and P1722

Both of these are related to the ECU no longer seeing the transmission controller (my donor is an AT). I need to add a pin to my ECU harness to ground the ID pin (ECU B connector, PIN 25) so it thinks it's a manual. Quick fix.

Obviously I still need to clean up the harness quite a bit yet too. This was just a quick check of function before I cut out the last bit of the extras for good, and put it all into loom.

Next up I have to get the engine out of the donor and get the rest of it hauled off. It's not a great looking yard ornament. Laughing
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

you'll still end up with a few nuisance codes. funny how fussy Subaru's can be.

that photo and time spent is exactly why jeff does my harness work. were I to do that for swap clients it would be a few hundred more than jeff charges. it's a lot of work, and I can respect the effort you've put in to it
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my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
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most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

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Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
you'll still end up with a few nuisance codes. funny how fussy Subaru's can be.

that photo and time spent is exactly why jeff does my harness work. were I to do that for swap clients it would be a few hundred more than jeff charges. it's a lot of work, and I can respect the effort you've put in to it


Yea, I've got the interface board from Small Car, but I've read that there is still some nuisance codes that can reappear. Apparently the ECU doesn't like to see a constant fuel level signal for a long time?? So I've read anyways, I'll take it as it comes. I'd LIKE to get the nuisance codes gone and keep them gone, so the MIL light could function normally and be useful. Not the end of the world if I can't, but that would be the goal.

I totally get the outsourcing of the harnesses. Jeff offers a really good package for sure. Let's you focus your efforts on the rest of the swap process.

Would I do it again?... yea probably... but that's just my personality, and I'm not trying to run a business. Laughing
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:48 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

To do it all code free is a huge chore...not worth it. The ecu will still hold "real" codes. Just jot down the codes that don't matter...then you'll know which ones do
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Quick update on progress (before the next baby arrives and slows things down Laughing )

After hustling last week to get prepped, I anaged to get the engine pulled from my donor on Saturday morning (I used the a-frame at work to do the deed)

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Loaded up the engine and tied it down for the ride back home after getting yanked

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But on the way home, I swung by the local pick-n-pull and dropped the rest of the donor off. Got $100 of my original investment back. Not too bad. I'm just glad to have it out of the yard.

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Once back home, I got the "new" engine on the stand. I will hopefully start tearing into it over the next few days.

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Super quick update, but things are moving steady (at the moment at least). More to come!
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Making a little more progress. New baby is due in just over a week, so I'm hoping to get some of the longer lead time type items identified and ordered so that they can make their way in and be ready after things calm back down and I can do a little wrench turning again.

After getting the engine on the stand, this last week I started to tear it down. Started by pulling off all of the accessories, the intake, and timing covers. Looks very VW'ish in layout when its all stripped down to the long block.

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After getting all the timing belt/pulleys/idlers removed, I went ahead and popped off the heads.

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The heads will be sent out to a machine shop for a full rebuild. I've been talking to the same shop that Skills uses, as well as a local shop I've used for other engines (both personal and work related). Need to make a decision on who and get them moving. I identified the shortblock PN I need and got that ordered through a local dealer, thinking that it would take a bit to get it. Lo and behold, I ordered it Wednesday, and got a call this morning that it came in. So I made a lunch run over to the parts dept and picked it up. Its just like Christmas Laughing

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Got a LOT of parts to clean up. My engine was pretty clean overall. Being in the dry south defiantly helps in regards to corrosion/muck on all the aluminum surfaces. In addition, my intake was pretty darn clean. Still got a lot of other brackets and stuff that I still need to get cleaned up and ready for the engine reassembly. I also need to check over my timing covers and see what kind of shape they are in overall. They looked pretty good coming off, but I need to go over them a bit closer yet. Also got the KEP adapter kit in the mail too. Things are coming together!
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richparker
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

New short block is how you do it. Nice job! Applause
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

richparker wrote:
New short block is how you do it. Nice job! Applause


Yea man.. that's been the plan from the beginning. I want an all "new" EJ25 in the end.

Ordered a load of gaskets, timing covers, oil pump, and other misc parts tonight. Its been an expensive day. All I need now is to get the heads done basically.
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

I bet you'll have 4-5K into the engine when you're done. may be close to 6 if you factor in shipping

either way, you can't build a good T4 for that money...and make the power that will. and a T1 is barely achievable in that price range...unless you're doing a sweep the floor engine...
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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vwwestyman
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:10 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

WooHoo! I love this kind of stuff!

Can't wait to see more progress, and good luck with Baby!
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
I bet you'll have 4-5K into the engine when you're done. may be close to 6 if you factor in shipping

either way, you can't build a good T4 for that money...and make the power that will. and a T1 is barely achievable in that price range...unless you're doing a sweep the floor engine...


Yea, that sounds about right price wise. Its certainly possible to do a swap cheaper if you find a low milage donor you trust, or your run of the mill high milage car your willing to roll the dice on. The thing is, your donor price generally goes up if the milage is lower, so its sort of a balancing act. Pay me now or pay me later.

For me, I found the cheapest running donor I could, because I knew I was going to go through everything in the engine. I paid $600 for the Forester, running @235k and in need of head gaskets. From what I've seen, they just don't really get much cheaper than that around here, as you are now in junk yard/pick-n-pull price ranges. I got $100 back for selling the rest back to the pick-n-pull, so I'm in $500 on the donor (engine/ecu/harness/misc sensors and wiring I pulled).

So after the donor, I'm in about 3k at the moment. Just under 2k for the new shortblock, and another 1k for everything else purchased so far (the KEP adaptor kit, full upper and lower gasket set, new oil pump, all new cam covers, timing belt/idler kit, and other odd bits). The big engine expense left is head rebuilding, and I'm likely going to throw in a set of reground cams. After that, all I have left is the cooling system, exhaust, and engine hanger. This will all by DIY by me, and should be smaller $$ compared to everything up to this point.

So yea, compared to a T1 or T4, I'm definitely catching up in cost. A lot depends on what kind of deals you can get along the way building, and how much you can do yourself (with either AC or subi really). Regardless, neither the T1 or T4 will make the power the EJ25 will, WITH the reliability of it.

And at the end of the day, I've just really wanted a late bay subi swapped Bus for several years, as this sort of stuff (i.e. alternative powertrain) is just where my interests are. That's why my '67 Bug has had a host of various megasquirt EFI turbo configurations through it. I just don't like "normal" engines LOL

The 2.0 T4 in the Bus now is a pretty fresh build that the PO put together. Its a nice engine for sure and runs really well. So it will find its way into my Beetle with a DIY upright Joe-cali cooling conversion down the road. I like projects Laughing
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

vwwestyman wrote:
WooHoo! I love this kind of stuff!

Can't wait to see more progress, and good luck with Baby!


Thanks!
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Just a teaser pic.. Couldn't resist peaking inside the big ole' Subaru box. One because I was just curious, and two because this isn't the EXACT part number short block called out for the 99 forester (that one is NLA), so I wanted to see if there were any major differences I didn't identify already. In general, these EJ engines are like LEGOS, so a NA EJ25 short block is an NA EJ25 short block no matter the year/PN. This PN is actually specified for an 03-04 range Legacy/Forester, a few model years newer. The biggest difference identified so far is that the crank vent on my old short block is just a hose barb, where this one is threaded fitting where the PCV screws in. Easy adaptation, just use the newer PCV.

Ok, enough rambling.. Let's see whats inside. They package them up well for sure..

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Its just like opening a present... sooo squeaky clean and new Cool

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I packed it all back up for now. I'll leave it packed until I have the heads ready and will put everything on the stand for assembly. Yesterday I stripped the last bit of parts I need from the old short block (crank timing belt pulley, oil pan, oil pump bolts, crank & knock sensor, etc). This week I'll see what I can do about getting the last bit of parts needed on order.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

yes, I made a post a few years ago the new s/b's were almost gone...at that time there was 6 or 8 left.

a Subaru reman is a good value as well. they come sparkling new like yours, and have the oil pump, water pump and a couple other tidbits with it.

the reality is, the lower ends are pretty stout unless some turkey did something bad. biggest issue with high mileage ones is piston slap when cold. these have pretty short skirts on the pistons.
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gprudenciop wrote:

my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese.......
[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
yes, I made a post a few years ago the new s/b's were almost gone...at that time there was 6 or 8 left.

a Subaru reman is a good value as well. they come sparkling new like yours, and have the oil pump, water pump and a couple other tidbits with it.

the reality is, the lower ends are pretty stout unless some turkey did something bad. biggest issue with high mileage ones is piston slap when cold. these have pretty short skirts on the pistons.


Yea I remember seeing that. I found a chart of PN's for various Subaru short blocks and corresponding reman blocks. There are quite a few different ones, with only tiny variations. From comments I've seen on the Subi forums, availability all depends on when Subaru does production runs on these blocks. For the oldest PN ones like for my 99, likely they are gone for good. But the EJ25 has been used (and it still in use) for quite a long time, so newer year model blocks are still readily available, and likely will be for a few years yet. Even this 03/04 block I picked up is still an EJ251, which is the first generation of the 2.5L's. I think up until you get to the variable valve timing ones, any NA EJ25 short block will work for our swaps given you have heads/intake/ecu that match up. I like LEGOS Laughing
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:34 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Found the link to the pdf with all the short block part numbers

https://content.subarunet.com/snet/_content/fixed_...blocks.pdf

My original short block would have been a 10103AB100. I bought the 10103AB390 block for the Bus.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Nothing major to report. Just been biding time waiting on parts. As of today, I now have everything in hand to reassemble. Did some unpacking and moved the new short block to the stand. This was the first time I unpacked it all the way. Boy am I getting excited! I have a new OE Subaru oil pump and a shortened OutFront Motorsports pan to install to finish out the bottom end.

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Today I also went and picked my heads up from the machine shop. I had talked with both the shop Skills uses, as well as my local shop. Skills shop seemed top notch and very helpful. A solid choice for sure. My local shop is place that does all makes/models and has done VW heads for me before, and some domestic stuff for work, and I've always been pleased. After talking with them and establishing their familiarity with Subaru heads, I let them have a go with them. In the end, it was just a local versus shipping thing for me. All in all I'm pleased with the results. I'm doing a little more of my own hands on with the local shop in regards to the valve train install/etc, but I enjoy this stuff. Got a brand new set of stock cams to install when they go back on too (so nice being able to get factory Subaru parts from the dealer Twisted Evil ).

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Also been cleaning up all the rest of the engine hardware. Picture kind of sucks, but the intake cleaned up well. Not shown is the water crossover pipe, which also got the royal treatment.

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The brackets and alternator housing cleaned up really nice. Most of this stuff is going through the sand blaster for cleaning (alternator disassembled obviously). Leaves a nice clean finish. Put a new set of bearings in the alternator for good measure when it went back together. Everything was working fine, but the bearings felt pretty rough, so cheap insurance. For $20 and some time, it spruced up well.

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That catches us all up. It will likely be a bit before I get to actually building. Still no new baby yet, but due date was today. So any day now at this point.

I'll leave you with this parting shot... Can't wait!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Still waiting on the baby (now overdue), so I figured I'd take advantage of the time while I have it Laughing

I wanted to jump on getting the engine together as soon as possible, as I've got parts spread all over the garage and in the Bus, and the longer those loose pieces lay around, the more likely things get lost or damaged. Putting it all together fixes all that.. so off we go!

I started by prepping the short block to get it ready for the heads. This was just really a quick lube in the bores, and a wipe down of the deck, and laying on the new head gaskets. These early SOHC EJ25s where known for head gasket issues after around 90-100k miles, so to help extend that life, I went with an updated MLS gasket. Should provide much improved life over the original factory gaskets. But let's be honest, its going to take me a while to get that sort of milage to see if these are better or not Laughing

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Then I moved on to prepping the heads. Again this was mostly just a final cleaning/wipe down before install. Very pleased with the work my machine shop did on them. They came out great.

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After you get one side done and torqued, rinse and repeat on the other, and then BAM!... you have 85% of your long block now complete.

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Next up was the cam install (which I didn't get any real good photos of). It's a relatively straightforward process. Just follow the factory service manual so you follow the correct sequence of torquing all the different fasteners that hold on the cam girdle. My right side cam girdle did give me some trouble. I had some issues with the cam binding during torquing. I did a LOT of trouble shooting and pulling the girdle off and on trying to figure out what was going on. Ultimately I found that torquing the 8 main rocker shaft bolts first (which are the primary bolts across the cam journals) solved my issues. I think that girdle was/is slightly tweaked, so torquing down those main bolts first got it pulled down and positioned correctly for the cam to run true in the journals. Then I could follow up with all the other little fasteners and everything was hunky dory. Cam spun nice and easy after it was all installed. The left side gave me no such fits at all, but was bolted down in the same manner, as it seemed to be the best approach. The job was completed with new cam seals and rear plugs being installed.

After the valve train was done, I went ahead and fitted a new oil pump (factory Subaru part), reinstalled the water pump from my donor (which is a 2 month old Asin pump), and installed the water cross over pipe. I also tossed the intake on top to see how things were looking.

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Next up was throwing on the alternator and mounts, oil pan (I went with a shortened on from outfrontmotorsports), and getting the new timing belt kit installed. I opted for a new Gates timing kit (the good one with the made in Japan idlers/bearings). After installing the idlers/pulleys, and bleeding the tensioner, it all went on easily. I also picked up one of the timing belt guides for MT cars that keeps the belt from possibly jumping time on the crank sprocket. The oil pan was an easy bolt on affair. I spent more time cleaning the sump baffle plate from the donor engine to get it clean than I did installing everything else. Outfront definately makes a nice pan though and I'd highly recommend. I was planning on DIY'ing this, but due to my time/schedule, I opted to just go ahead and buy the already reworked pan. It was a good choice.

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Lastly I just installing a few other odds and ends like the new timing covers, sensors, dip stick tube, etc, etc....and wha-lah.. a "new" EJ25

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I'm very happy with how it all came out. I CANT WAIT to get it installed and driving Twisted Evil
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74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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