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Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap)
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panel
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Do you have heat in your bus ?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Easily one of my favorite busses! I may never do a subi swap (esp not after spending the time and $$$ rebuilding this T-4, but dang if yours doesn't make me wish I had! Also a big fan of your suspension setup. That stance is perfect!

Applause

Did you have to tub under the front seats for that?
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:14 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

panel wrote:
Do you have heat in your bus ?


Not yet. I looped the heater core lines when I installed the engine at the end of last year. Obviously from that point moving into the summer there wan't much motivation to get a heater installed Laughing

I do have some plans/ideas of what I'd like to do. I should probably go ahead and get on that since "winter is coming" Laughing
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The only cheap part of an aircooled VW sits behind the wheel..
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

riverside66 wrote:
Easily one of my favorite busses! I may never do a subi swap (esp not after spending the time and $$$ rebuilding this T-4, but dang if yours doesn't make me wish I had! Also a big fan of your suspension setup. That stance is perfect!

Applause

Did you have to tub under the front seats for that?


Thanks riverside66! I'm super happy with the end result.

As far as the suspension goes, its a full Wagenswest setup (4" beam w/2.5" spindles, 3.25" drop plates). Currently it is NOT tubbed at all, but in all honesty, I need to do something eventually. With it sitting empty, it has a little more wheel gap than I'd prefer aesthetically, but once you get people in it, it sits pretty well perfect.

With the 17's and my tire size that is darn near stock diameter, this is pretty well as low as you can go without body mods. When I'm running lightly loaded (just me, or with the fam just for a ride), the only time I have any issues is some minor rubbing up front if you hit a pretty good size bump/dip in the road, or pitch it into the corner hard (this should improve with the sway bay). However, if I load the Bus down for a trip with the family and our gear, the rubbing through corners happens more often, and occurs at lower speeds due to the suspension compression.

I have considered wheel tubs up front, but that then also forces me to do something with the front seats since they would be pushed up too. I'm a tall guy, and already looking through the top tinted portion of the glass, so I can't tolerate the seat height going up. If I go this route, I would plan to get a set of 914 front buckets to swap in, as they are very thin/low profile, and would essentially allow me to sit in the same spot even with the tubs.

My other thought honestly has been full air ride on the Bus. This would be the ultimate honestly. Let it sit how I want all the time (even unloaded), but air up when cruising or when heavily loaded. Just toying with the idea. Its a pretty good $$ investment.

From a high level, I'm not sure what all else I'm planning to do to the Bus. I need to get heat hooked up per my last post, and I have planned to do AC and have some of those parts already collected. The rest of what I need to do is small projects (head liner, recover rear seats, dynamat, etc). So long as I don't get distracted by some other project (which is a real possibility), I should hopefully work though these things bit by bit.
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74 Transporter (2.0 T4, SOHC EJ25) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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The only cheap part of an aircooled VW sits behind the wheel..
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Time for another update...

I FINALLY got my custom 4" narrowed front sway bar in my hands. Since installing my Wagenswest narrowed adjustable beam over a year ago, I haven't had a sway bar on this Bus. I didn't really notice it too bad with the old T4, but as the performance level of the Bus has progressed with the swap, it has become more and more noticeable. I had to hunt for quite a while to find someone with the ability and willingness to make a narrowed bar. What I ended up with is a larger 7/8" diameter bar, just like all the stock width HD sway bars sold on the market. Its basically the same shape as the stock bar, but just with 4" removed from its mid-section. It being thicker AND shorter from being narrowed results in a very stiff bar. I was excited.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Did quite a bit of wrestling to get it on. In all honestly, I think the bar needs some more tweaking, as it was just a touch wider than what I expected compared to my stock bar. That said I was able to get it bolted up. I had planned to use stock style clamps for the bushings, but the Brazilian repop clamps I bought ABSOLUTELY SUCK. Ditched that idea and pursued some t-bolt clamps commonly used in the aftermarket. Couldn't find anything local, so in a pinch I picked up these constant torque clamps to get it mounted for now. Already have some proper t-bolt clamps on the way, but I'm actually impressed with these napa constant torque clamps Laughing

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After getting it installed, I went for a quick drive. As soon as I jumped in the front seat I could tell the bar was there. Not nearly as much wiggle side to side. Rolled out of the neighborhood and hit the closest twisty road, and WOW. Take about a night and day difference. Hard to really describe it, but I came back with the hugest grin. Giggled like a little girl as I flung it through some corners. Just sooooooo much more capable than before.

Could have quite likely stopped right there and been completely happy with the improvement, but not only did I get the new custom front bar, I had also ordered a "normal" 7/8" rear bar for it too. So next I went about trying to install that. It was not exactly a bolt on affair. After getting the end link mounts bolted up to the lower rear shock mounts, I realized that the bar was contacting the lower bolts on the trailing arm. I didn't expect this, and was a bit puzzled at first, but then it hit me. The contact was purely a result of the drop plates used in the rear, since the rear shock bolt elevation relative to the trailing arm was now different. Thought this was going to be the end of the rear bar idea, so I yanked it all back off and called it a day.

Later that night after taking a break from it all, I had an epiphany. If I took the spacer out of the rear end link stack, I could likely gain just enough clearance to keep it all clear. So the next morning I got the rear of the Bus back up in the air and went to town. Just as I had expected (hoped), after I removed the spacer from the end link stack I got JUST enough clearance between the sway bar and lower trailing arm bolts. I was now golden. Removing the spacer was also advantageous in another way. All along I had planned to make an aluminum spacer between the rear bars forward mounts and frame. This was done to keep the bar down clear of the lip of the frame, and provided a little more room for my coolant lines that pass right through that area. So in the end with the front mount spacer added and the end link spacer removed, everything stayed right in plane. Win win.

Here is the rear bar installed

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

In this pic you can see the forward mount spacer too.

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Here is the end link stack with the spacer removed (I have shorter bolts to install now. Picked them up this afternoon after taking pics). The spacer I removed was ~0.5", and normally sat between the upper and lower pairs of end link bushings where the single washer is. Worked out pretty well deleting it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The only thing I don't really care for is the goofy dip in the middle of the bar. This is common on all the aftermarket rear sway bars for Buses. Not sure why? There is plenty of room between it and the transmission. Although goofy, it doesn't hang any lower than the engine hanger/oil pan on the engine, so NBD I guess.Naturally I was anxious to drive it some more and see what the rear bar added, so again I cruised out of the neighborhood and hit up the first twisty road I could. Good lord almighty. This thing handles. Pretty wild that a Bus can be made to handle this well. It's certainly no Porsche, but man it drives way better than you'd expect something like this to. So yet another weak link in the Bus has been improved. Naturally everything progressing performance wise is leaving me really thinking that the upgraded big brake kit up front is the logical next step. Guess I need to hit up Wagenswest again Laughing

Oh and for you eagle eye folks, yes I did find another issue while I was poking around out back. Not sure if it happened on our recent trip while we were loaded running through the Dragon, or when I piled a bunch of the guys from work in the back for a lunch run (aka big boy slam kit), but I have experienced some contact between the frame and axle shafts. Embarassed As I've stated before, my current ride height and tire/wheel size is at the practical limit without requiring body mods. That said, I apparently don't have as much (or any) margin left. It's highly doubtful that I am going to raise the ride height at this point, so I guess I need to go ahead and pull the trigger and fab up a small frame notch back there. It shouldn't need a lot really, but it certainly needs more space to allow the axle room before the bump stop does its job. I know that this sort of modification is a big turn off for a lot of folks, but I'm ok with doing what is required to make it all work right. This is certainly my "forever" Bus, and even if it isn't, anyone interested in a Bus as non-stock as this thing I'm sure would be OK with a well executed notch Laughing Notching *might* require a bit of shifting of the coolant lines too. There is actually more room there than the pictures let on though. That said, even if they have to get repositioned some, it's nothing that can be solved.

The "good" side Laughing

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The "bad" side. The old CV boot did a good job polishing off the paint Shocked

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Nothing to hide here! Upwards and onwards Laughing Cool

Oh, might as well post another pic of that sexy EJ25 for good measure too Twisted Evil

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Sloride
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Well done as usual!

I have had only one issue with my water-cooled bus since doing the conversion years ago and it was due to a rad hose slipping off of its support and rubbing against the cv axle. I luckily caught it before it was no bigger than a pin hole. It did mean however that I couldn't make the 5 hour road trip to June Jitter Bug that year and had to turn around.

Keep the pictures and updates coming. I parked my bus two weeks ago as we are well into fall here now and snow is just around the corner.
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Vee Dub Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 9:30 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Sloride wrote:
Well done as usual!

I have had only one issue with my water-cooled bus since doing the conversion years ago and it was due to a rad hose slipping off of its support and rubbing against the cv axle. I luckily caught it before it was no bigger than a pin hole. It did mean however that I couldn't make the 5 hour road trip to June Jitter Bug that year and had to turn around.

Keep the pictures and updates coming. I parked my bus two weeks ago as we are well into fall here now and snow is just around the corner.


Thanks Sloride!

Zero issues here too with the water cooled side of things since getting the radiator and fan setup optimized. Its still just a car, so there are a million possible single point failures that can bite you like any other car (swapped or not), but man is it a night and day difference compared to the old air cooled mill. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea and I can respect that. But its hard to argue with the cost/performance/reliability aspect that a well executed swap can get you.

Fortunately being down south there is no end of the Bus season for us. We'll still keep cruising this thing year around. Getting closer to hanging the Christmas lights back on it again for our annual Christmas Light Cruise/Hunt. Its always a blast.

I'll keep updating as I go. Got a couple more small parts and projects planned in the near future, and getting pretty serious about pulling the trigger on brakes. As most projects like this go, its never "done" Laughing
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74 Transporter (2.0 T4, SOHC EJ25) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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Sloride
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

I can only dream of what it must be like to have a season that runs longer than May to October. We try our best to squeeze as much VW time in as possible. Now what would extend that would be a heater in the bus. I'm waiting to see how you tackle that next and then I'll follow your lead.

Happy faster trails and cornering in the meantime....Don't forget the stock brakes.
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Link to the engine swap:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565304&highlight=

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

For driving:

http://www.msrheaters.com/shop/

For camping (and extra heat while driving):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254171757615

I'm using Vangon rear heaters in the front and back of my TDI bus, but the MSR heaters look like a good alternative. I've got the diesel version of that Eberspacher/Espar heater for camping and also use it for supplementary heat when driving.

Output for both the Vanagon and Espar heaters go to the back seat vent. Espar on one side, Vanagon on the other. Works great!

The other Vanagon heater is mounted to the splash pan (may flip it and mount to the underside of the floor at some point) and ducted into the factory heater "tree."
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:32 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

That's VERY cool, a sweet bus Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Sloride wrote:
I can only dream of what it must be like to have a season that runs longer than May to October. We try our best to squeeze as much VW time in as possible. Now what would extend that would be a heater in the bus. I'm waiting to see how you tackle that next and then I'll follow your lead.

Happy faster trails and cornering in the meantime....Don't forget the stock brakes.


I'll hopefully be starting on the heat project pretty soon. Going to need it pretty quick Laughing I've got most of my parts picked out already for a small heater under the middle seat. I had some other ideas of a front mounted heater core that tied into all the original dash ducting, but am having trouble finding the correct pieces to pull that off. I'll be sure to post up here as I get it all sorted.
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The only cheap part of an aircooled VW sits behind the wheel..
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

markswagen wrote:
That's VERY cool, a sweet bus Smile


Thanks markswagen! It has come together very well!
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The only cheap part of an aircooled VW sits behind the wheel..
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

I've been pleasantly surprised with how well the heater under the rear bench works. For our Canadian Thanksgiving, it kept my 80+ year old mom nice and toasty in the front seat for our 3hr drive.

Good result with your sway bars!

Took advantage of a warm and sunny day today to give our bus a wash - the last before storage? We'll see... Depends how the barn is filling up I suppose.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:06 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Looks real nice Cool

That goofy dip in the rear bar is for an Auto trans. Its compatible-universal part. Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Ride_On wrote:
I've been pleasantly surprised with how well the heater under the rear bench works. For our Canadian Thanksgiving, it kept my 80+ year old mom nice and toasty in the front seat for our 3hr drive.

Good result with your sway bars!

Took advantage of a warm and sunny day today to give our bus a wash - the last before storage? We'll see... Depends how the barn is filling up I suppose.


Ride_On, good info on the rear heater effectiveness! Certainly a simple solution to make work. A lot less plumbing and such than some of the other options I have (or am) considering.

Hopefully you can get a few more rides before winter settles in!
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67 Beetle (1500sp, 1776dp, 1915NA, 1915T fuel injected, 2276NA, 2276T fuel injected, 2084NA, T4 conversion coming soon!)

74 Transporter (2.0 T4, SOHC EJ25) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

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The only cheap part of an aircooled VW sits behind the wheel..
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
Looks real nice Cool

That goofy dip in the rear bar is for an Auto trans. Its compatible-universal part. Wink


Ahhh haaa! That makes sense...

I haven't been around any auto trans Buses, but that certainly explains why its configured that way then. Seemed odd to me with the manual trans. Its actually more work to build the bar with the dip, and I couldn't figure out why they did that when it wasn't needed.

Thanks for the props notchboy!
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67 Beetle (1500sp, 1776dp, 1915NA, 1915T fuel injected, 2276NA, 2276T fuel injected, 2084NA, T4 conversion coming soon!)

74 Transporter (2.0 T4, SOHC EJ25) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

I know Skills says the rear heater only is plenty, and it may well be for just warming up the bus, but I wonder about things like defrost.

I drive my Bus in cold weather from time to time, and there are certainly times where having the defrost fan is real nice. I do wish that I got a little more heat up front from my current heater.

Maybe it is just a deal where the rear heater is sufficient, but the front is a real nice addition.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

I've been happy with the heat from the rear seat heater, and so has Ride-On.

lack of defrost is an issue to some. I will be adding front heat to fokkers bus. I haven't done this due to complexity of the cooling system, as I have always wanted to KISS, but he has requested it.

the biggest thing with the Subaru is the t-stat must have a "feedback" from the heater core. if not, they overheat when cold (sounds nuts right?) but if the returning coolant it too cool, the way Subaru designed the system means cold coolant tinkles on the thermostat and it never opens (even in -10* weather the t stat will crack open to piss some coolant thru)

so, I have never taken the plunge, but will be doing it soon. I have an idea how I want to do it. my cooling system is pretty much self bleeding at this point. not sure what the front heater loop is going to do to me...
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[email protected] wrote:
most VW enthusiasts are stuck in 80's price land.

Jake Raby wrote:
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public.

Brian wrote:
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

Oh man, Skills heard me talking about him!

I'm interested to see what you come up with.

With the one heater core, do you worry about the feedback loop? Or is the run to be short enough that there is that needed feedback?

I know I've read discussion of this issue and how to work around it in the Vanagon forum.
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Dave Cook
Stuartzickefoose wrote:
I'm gonna punch vwwestyman then shake his hand when I meet him.

notchboy wrote:
Ill just punch you in the face. Wink

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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Vee Dub Nut
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Joined: April 25, 2004
Posts: 1051
Location: NW Georgia
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap) Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I've been happy with the heat from the rear seat heater, and so has Ride-On.

lack of defrost is an issue to some. I will be adding front heat to fokkers bus. I haven't done this due to complexity of the cooling system, as I have always wanted to KISS, but he has requested it.

the biggest thing with the Subaru is the t-stat must have a "feedback" from the heater core. if not, they overheat when cold (sounds nuts right?) but if the returning coolant it too cool, the way Subaru designed the system means cold coolant tinkles on the thermostat and it never opens (even in -10* weather the t stat will crack open to piss some coolant thru)

so, I have never taken the plunge, but will be doing it soon. I have an idea how I want to do it. my cooling system is pretty much self bleeding at this point. not sure what the front heater loop is going to do to me...


Thanks for the input Skills!

With your rear heaters, are you running water through the core all the time, or are you using a bypassing control valve to cut off water to the core but still flow for the tstat control?

Regardless of where I end up putting my heater core (considering several options at the moment), I'm planning on using some sort of bypassing heater control valve. I want to keep ALL heat out of the cabin when not needed. The only exception to that would be if I did some sort of combined single cooling and heating unit that would benefit from having some heat flow while the AC is running too for fine control.

I am aware of the Subaru tstat needing feedback. Not sure if Tom Shiels is still selling his little spacer do-dad or not. Sent an email, we'll see. That seemed like a pretty easy solution to get past any temperature issues related to pulling off too much heat from the heater loop.

Regarding my heating plans, right now its either going to be a rear under seat deal, or I'm going to have a combined heater core/evaporator unit under the dash. The under dash deal would require some special air bleeding when the system is drained and filled, but that's manageable. My primary concern is how well the coolant will actually flow through the 5/8" heater core lines running all the way from the back to front, and lifting up above the engine into the dash. Anyone with practical experience with that? I'll probably post up another thread on that subject to get a little more visibility/discussion.
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67 Beetle (1500sp, 1776dp, 1915NA, 1915T fuel injected, 2276NA, 2276T fuel injected, 2084NA, T4 conversion coming soon!)

74 Transporter (2.0 T4, SOHC EJ25) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

Clatter wrote:
The only cheap part of an aircooled VW sits behind the wheel..
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