Vee Dub Nut's 74 Bay Transporter (& Subaru EJ25 Swap)

[Vee Dub Nut]

Well after wrapping up the loose ends, I was able to take the Bus out for its maiden voyage Friday. In a single word.. AWESOME! Despite the fact that the weather was crap, the first drive was GREAT! First time I have ever had to turn on the wipers on this thing

Its a totally different Bus now. I've had this lowered and swapped late bay Bus dreamed up in my head for years now, and the swap was the last piece of the puzzle. I'm happy to say that it has totally met my expectations (which are/were very high). its just a dream to drive. I came up with every excuse I could to take it out this weekend. Thankfully the weather cooperated

Now I still have quite a bit of tweaking left to do. I haven't done any of the radiator shrouding I've planned. Its cooling fine as is right now, but then again its pretty cold at the moment, so not a big challenge.

Also still have to get a VSS installed. I didn't really research the details on the VSS when I first started (was distracted by the more major tasks at hand), but had saw a post where someone had used an ABS sensor for the VSS, so I had kept those off my donor with that in my mind. Realized this weekend that Subaru used 2 wire and 3 wire VSS' over the years, and the ABS sensor only works on cars that used the 2 wire sensor. Naturally my donor 99 Forester had the 3 wire sensor originally, so the ABS sensor was a no-go. Considered making something up myself, but decided to just pick up the Rocky Mountain Westy VSS kit instead. Looks like the most well thought out kit available, and it saves me some time.

Here is the final layout of the ECU and wiring. As I posted before back when I first did the harness, I had to ground the manual trans ID pin so that the ECU thinks its a manual (donor was an auto). This takes care of any codes related to the TCM not being there. I also ground the neutral position switch to avoid any side effects of the ECU thinking the trans it supposed to be in neutral. Beyond that, I added a local fuse box for the Subi main circuits (main relay, fans, fuel pump, etc), and everything tucked up well below the back bench. Except for the one code that I am picking up right now related to the VSS, the system is 100% functional and nuisance code free!

And what does all that trouble get you.. this: modern and refined EFI. Here is a dead cold start at 38F. Just reach in and flick the key.


Link

Oh, and the 165hp is nice too.. power for days.. and SMOOTH

I'll keep posting as I work on my various refinements. Just happy to be back on the road again!
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006

67 Beetle (TBD)

74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

[vwwestyman]

Congratulations! I know the feeling! I've experienced it far too many times. (From blowing up more than one motor!)

Sounds awesome and I'm glad to see you're happy with it. I do like the TDI in my '78, but with every Subaru swap I see, I like them more and more. It sure seems like you all have a lot less nonsense to figure out than I did, which results in simplicity and therefore increased reliability and a cleaner engine bay.

Well done.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[Stuartzickefoose]

[vwwestyman]

[Vee Dub Nut]

[vwwestyman]

I guess by nonsense, I mean things like the turbo and all the stuff to make it work properly, such as the intercooler. Because there is no great airflow back there for a regular intercooler, I have a liquid cooled intercooler, so that means I essentially have a second cooling system to deal with. I suppose that is probably the biggest example of something I have had to work out that you don't.

I agree the shape of the engine is a very nice feature with achieving a clean look.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Hikelite]

Grats Adam

Sweet ride you have there.
_________________
~Kevin

My 1968 Campmobile

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Sloride]

Slick job! I like it. Keep us posted on how you are enjoying it.
_________________
1972 Westfalia - 1.8 VW in-line h2o conversion
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

Link to the engine swap:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=565304&highlight=

1964 Ruby Red Beetle

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=705757&highlight=ruby+red

[Ride_On]

Smiles for miles!!
Awesome job - just finished our first season with a swap and I got a smile on my face everytime I started it up!
Enjoy!
_________________
1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG)

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

Not a whole lot to report, but just wanted to drop in. The holidays and some traveling have kept me pretty tied up and away from the shop. I did get to sneak out and install my Rocky Mountain Westy VSS today. Its a pretty nice setup. I had to clearance the trigger wheel a bit to fit around my CV boot cages, and I ended up using my own sensor mount as opposed to the one they supplied (mine is a little more compact and fits better IMO). End result is that the ECU now sees vehicle speed, and the code and quirks related to not having a VSS are gone. Runs like a top. Hard to explain if you haven't driven a swapped Bus before, but it has power on tap EVERYWHERE, and its buttery smooth to drive.

After I verified the VSS function, I got all the rear seats re-installed, and went ahead and busted out the Christmas lights for thi season. Just about time for the annual family cruise for Christmas lights!

I'll hopefully be posting more updates here pretty soon. I have material waiting to build some shrouds for the radiator, as well as a heat shield for the exhaust. Nothings thats particularly pressing, just the finishing touches I haven't gotten around to yet. Until then I'm just enjoying the ride!

_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006

67 Beetle (TBD)

74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

[daninvan]

what a great build thread!

I love the stance of your bus and how clean your engine install is, great workmanship.

I've been going back and forth whether or not to undertake a subi swap on my 71 Westy. I love that it's AC and that we do big trips and have tons of (slow) fun in her, but It's my daily and when it's time to retire the 1600 i keep looking at the 2.5 swap.

Your install may have just convinced me! it is clean, and appears that if you ever wanted to go back to your type 4 (why would you) you could do it.
Great work, I hope to use a lot of your examples to do the same with mine.

Dan
_________________
1971 Campmobile

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

Merry Christmas Eve to all you guys!

Just thought I'd jump in and throw a few photos and updates.

This past weekend I took a trip up to Silva NC and rescued a 77 sage westy off the side of a mountain. I picked up this Bus primarily for its transmission. The PO had done a TDI swap some years ago, but parked the Bus after the engine starting having some issues resulting in smoke and poor performance. Although the majority of the swap was pretty well a hack fest, he did at least have a nice trans built for it (and it didn't seem to have many miles on it). It was built by Fun Buggies up in Michigan. It's an 091 box with a 1.17 3rd and 0.7 4th. I was actually talking with a trans builder a few days prior about getting my box reworked for the Subi when this one come up for sale. Since it was relatively local I decided to go check it out. I also thought I might score my next project out of the deal too since I've been half looking for a camper to mess around with again. Once I got there though, the busses actual condition body wise was rougher than hoped for, and I thought about walking away from it all together to save myself the trouble. However I figured it still had the transmission, and for the right price would still be worth the effort. I mean I was there with a trailer and cash. I looked it all over, explained my take on everything, and threw out an offer that made sense for me. The seller bit and we struck a deal. After a little bit of work getting it out of the most un-level and water logged property I've ever seen, we had it loaded up and I headed back to ATL.

My trusty old truck once again dragging another Bus home. I will say the mountainous terrain gave it a serious work out though

Eventually I got it back home and tucked in the shop with its new friends

I'm REALLY enjoying the new shop since we moved here. It's super nice being able to get all of this in here, and still having decent room to work.

The next day I did my usual interior clean out, sorting through all the misc garbage and tossing out the trash. All in all its a decently complete Westy. It does appear to have been on fire at some point in its life, which is why the back half was resprayed and is still shiny. It also needs a decent amount of metal work. Really not too bad I guess for an east coast car, but not like the dry stuff I'm used to seeing back in TX. All in all its likely more of a project than I want to take on, but for posterity sake, here are a few pics.

I've never had a late bay camper before, and I have to say that the swivel seat is pretty killer

After getting it cleaned out I wasted no time pulling the powertrain out of it. I'm not going to post pics here, but there are some on my Instagram if you are so inclined (@vee_dub_nut). The PO was a nice guy for sure, but I'll be honest and say that the TDI swap was a complete mess. Duct tape, random hoses, globs of wires, ac ducting strap, and more duct tape was holding it all together (and I mean LITERAL duct tape). There was even 2L soda bottle plastic wrapped and tapped around hoses for "protection" from chaffing. It was a mess and HUGE pain to remove just in dealing with the convoluted cooling system. I swear I still feel sticky from all the coolant I spilled. Always, I harvest the good bits from the swap, and the rest will go to the recycler/dump. Here is just one pic to give you a flavor of what I found during disassembly. I call it "when your PO was a fabricator"

In the end though I got what I wanted Everything feels nice and tight on it, and its pretty clean overall. I'll pull the bell housing off and give the r/p a look see when I change the input shaft out (this one was trimmed). Hopefully no surprises will be found.

As far as more direct updates on the Bus, I've been clicking off a few small things here and there. Got a new speedo cable installed finally. Nice to have that working again.

I also picked up a set of the Just Kampers earz. I've always been curious about these, as they look to have potential of more directly creating positive air flow in the engine bay. Since I had an order going with Bus Depot already, I threw them into the cart. I stuck them on today to see how they fit. As far as visuals go, I think they are great. They are very non-intrusive, and completely invisible to the casual glance. I'm planning on doing some testing with them to see if they have any effect on temperature and air flow into the engine bay. With the air cooled fan no longer there, I get the feeling that the air is pretty stagnant in there. Thought these might be a neat experiment to play with. If they help keep clean cooler air flushed into the engine bay, they seem like a worth while add. I admittedly haven't identified a need for them, just really wanted to play with a set to satisfy my curiosity about how much they change air flow. We'll see.

Also snapped a final daylight picture of the completed install. I love the way it all came out.

Still haven't made any progress on my radiator shrouds yet, apart from finally getting measurements made and written down for them. I'll probably mess around with that later in the week since my work is closed for Christmas. The more I'm observing the cooling systems current behavior with how its set up now, I'm questioning if my radiator placement is tucked up too close to the floor. Its fit up is super nice and tight which was one of my goals, but I've only got a couple of inches between it and the actual floor. I think my air flow currently is pretty limited. I'll have to see if I can get air scooped in where I need it to be to be able to keep it mounted like it is. Its cooling OK now, but I expect without some successful air deflecting, it would likely not work well enough as outside air temps increase. Getting ahead of myself really, as I still need to actually test the theory, but just thinking out loud based on what I'm observing so far.

That's all for now. Hope all of y'all have a Merry Christmas!
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006

67 Beetle (TBD)

74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut

[vwwestyman]

Well I for one am very jealous of your being able to go buy a pre-built tdi geared transmission in a parts bus!
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

[Vee Dub Nut]

[Vee Dub Nut]

Finally an update with some more meat to it!

Today I spent the day fiddling around with the cooling system. As I've been driving it more and more, I was observing that air flow to my radiator in its current position just wasn't sufficient. Just a reminder, this is where I was starting from. The bottom of the radiator was completely flush against the bottom frame rails, but with the down side of having pretty limited air space above the rad.

My initial driving at low speeds on smaller surface streets didn't present any issues. Fans occasionally ran, but temps stayed in check pretty easily (even without any aid from shrouding or scoops). However as I've been driving it more and more, and starting to push out further and faster, I've noticed that driving at any sort of higher speeds caused the fans to kick on without the temps really coming back down until I dropped speed. I knew it was time to start digging in further to see how to improve the cooling capacity. I know the surface area of the radiator should be plenty big enough, it was just a matter of getting the right kind of air flow.

So I thought I'd start scientifically first. To try and understand what was going currently, I attempted to build a simple manometer to take some pressure measurements at different speeds to see what I could learn about the way things were currently working (or not). Here is what I came up with. Its just some small vinyl tubing tacked down to a 1x6 board. One side of the manometer was referencing the top side of the rad, while the other side was referencing the bottom of the rad. The pressure "probes" were just some 1/4 SS tubing bent at 90*, with the opening facing towards the back of the Bus.

Unfortunately after building this up and doing some driving around, the results I got were not real useful. Basically I didn't see much of any change on the manometer based on speed (with the manometer mounted both straight up and down, and at an angle to try and increase its sensitivity). In addition, ANY sort of movement of the bus from cornering caused the manometer readings to move around significantly, making comparative readings based on speed pretty hard to get. So all in all, it was a fun little experiment, but really a wash as far as actual useful data. I attribute my lack of results to either one of two things: 1) my pressure probes were not really proper static type pressure probes (I would like to do actually fab some proper probes and retry), or 2) there wasn't really any pressure differential present across the rad (which would also support a current observed/theorized lack of air flow ).

Despite the fact that the manometer results didn't really give me much info, I knew it was time to try and manipulate the air flow to get more air forced through the core while driving. I had planned from the beginning to try and build some sort of scoop/deflector at the leading edge of the radiator to try and help push air to the topside of it at speed. I want the air flow to go from the top of the radiator down, as firstly I think (or thought anyways) that that would be the "natural" air flow direction when driving at speed, and secondly I want the waste heat to be pushed away from the floor to not effect cabin temperatures. With this in mind I starting looking at how to fab up some sort of scoop. My rough plan was to build some end plates that bolted to the side of the frame rails, and then use some thin gauge galvanized steel to skin the scoop. However as I studied the placement of everything more and more, and started mocking up the side plates, I realized a real flaw (or challenge) with how my radiator was sitting. Being that my radiator is tucked up flush with the frame rails, and the core being approx 4" thick, clearance between it and the floor support beams was VERY narrow. This meant that even with a scoop, the air basically only had a short ~1.5" tall space between the end tank and support beam to pass between. You can kind of see that with this picture.

Essentially what I was starting to realize, was even though I originally wanted to get the radiator tucked up as tight as possible, I was leaving little to no room to actually let air get in and flow. Even if air made it past the first support beam, there were two more beams down the length of the rad to deal with, and that didn't even consider the fans themselves which also obstruct a good portion of the air space.

From this realization, I had to start re-thinking my approach. I originally mounted the radiator up high and tight so nothing would hang down below the Bus visible. Maybe its a small thing, but it was something that I really wanted to try and achieve. That said, I knew I was already giving up some of that with the addition of any scoop. So thinking about this further, I decided that instead of hanging a scoop down, that I should angle the radiator itself down instead. This would let the radiator itself act as sort of a scoop, and open up the space between the radiator and floor and support rails to actually allow air to get through. To test this theory before making any hard changes in mounted, I dropped my front radiator saddle below the frame rail, and used some small all thread to hang it down about 4 or 5". I'll certainly need to clean this up and make it a lot less chunky if it stays this way, but it would prove the concept.

Threw a couple of ratchet straps on each side to keep the saddles pulled against the radiator before driving, as the front mount now had a lot of potential forward/back movement in with it being no longer rigidly bolted to the frame rail. Ghetto, but functional for a quick test.

Immediately as I got out on the road I noticed the system behaving MUCH differently. The t-stat in this thing should be fully open at 195F, and before with the radiator up flush it ALWAYS would get that hot, usually bouncing around between 195-202 (which was consistent with the fan on/off trigger points). Now with the radiator dropped down in the front, I noticed that temps were staying quite a bit cooler. Encouraged, I got out on the road and starting increasing my speed. What I found was that my temps were staying a good 20*F cooler than before. In fact, at 60-65, temps were hanging steady at 181F, with the fan never coming on at all until I got back into my neighborhood and idled in the driveway. This means that my t-stat was not even fully opening up, suggesting that the cooling capacity of the radiator was now more than sufficient versus the required heat rejection from the engine.

To be completely honest, I'm a bit bummed that the radiator is not going to be able to be mounted as I had it before. Aesthetically that is certainly what I would prefer. However practically, it just wasn't working well, and I don't see the point of not dropping the radiator when it makes such an improvement. Even if I could have made it work where it was with the addition of a scoop (which is debatable given the air obstructions), the scoop would have been hanging down just as low anyways.

So my next steps are to rework a new front mount to drop down the front of the rad. I want to play with the amount of drop to see how little I might can get away with. Again, aesthetically I'd like to get it tucked up as much as I can, but obviously it will be handing down from the frame rail some. Regardless, the rear engine hanger and oil pan is still the low point on the swap, so its just an exercise of making it as less visibly obtrusive as possible.

Here is a side pic after my ghetto mount test. Certainly no longer invisible, but something I think I can work with.

All for now.. I'll update as I get it dialed in further!
_________________
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2006

67 Beetle (TBD)

74 Transporter (EJ25 Swapped) - Build Thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

See all my VW pics on Instagram @ vee_dub_nut