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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Hello all,
I'm in the final stages of my SC in-dash A/C install. I've been searching for info on how to choose my oil and refrigerant for the system. I've mainly found youtube videos of guys recharging their systems. I've read that the oil choice should be determined by the compressor and what the manufacture recommends. I also see the different refrigerant options. I ask on fellow van owner and he said R-134 so that seems to be the route I'll go.
All of my system will be new so there is no previous oil or refrigerant in the system. I'm still searching and reading what I find but can anyone give advice or an opinion on this topic.
Thanks GreggK |
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dhaavers Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010 Posts: 7756 Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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http://www.aa1car.com/library/pagoil.htm
Keep cool!
- Dave
PS: Certainly go with r134a if you expect a shop may ever work on your AC, but
be aware you will take a hit in performance compared to r12a. If you're willing to
do your own work using r12a you will get better bang for your buck but then you
must never expect any run-of-the-mill AC shop to touch it...just sayin'...
<shrug> _________________ 86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>
Last edited by dhaavers on Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SyncroChrick Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2005 Posts: 1010 Location: San Francisco, CA
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Greggk
Which compressor do you have? |
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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Looks like I can find some useful information on that link. I just too a look. I'll have to go look at my compressor to see who the manufacture is. I appreciate the help. |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3274 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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I suggest that you use PAG oil and, for the viscosity choice, go with the viscosity recommended by the compressor manufacturer.
PAG works with both R134A and also with Red Tek. In fact, if you use RedTek and later decide on a servicing or a sale that you want to use R134A, you can release the Red Tek to atmosphere (it is a hydrocarbon, not an ozone-killer), vacuum down the system, and install R134A refrigerant.
I have had an excellent experience with Red Tek and highly recommend it. The key aspects of its superiority to R134A are lower head pressures on the high side of the system, and better cooling performance.
FWIW, I used PAG 100 for my Subaru SVX compressor, but each compressor has its own recommended viscosity. Note that the SVX compressor is very different from the compressors found on the 2.2 and 2.5 Subaru engines. _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Here is a nice gotcha for AC first timers
There are a couple major kinds of PAG oil , so called PAG100 and PAG46 and PAG150
There are others, but those are common.
ZEXEL, a major manufacturer of AC compressors, also makes PAG oil.
They make a product called ZXL 100PG - which is made to PAG 46 specifications.
Seriously. _________________ .ssS! |
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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Thanks for all the replies. I'll check on my compressor as soon as I get a chance. Work has taken over once again. I wont even have time this weekend to work on my van! |
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dobryan Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006 Posts: 16503 Location: Brookeville, MD
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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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I've finally got the time to update. I'm pretty sure the name on my compressor is "NEW". Its made in China and actually has the recommended type of refrigerant and oil printed on a label. Soon I'll run all the hoses and button it all up.
Is it recommended to have a shop charge the system? I don't really let anyone work on my van aside from alignment, which I don't think even gets done properly. I see there is some specific equipment for this. Any opinions? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:57 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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You need a vacuum pump to evacuate and leak test before you charge.
Then you need to study up for a couple of weeks to understand the process
If you go in unarmed with knowledge you. Have about a 90% chance of screwing it up _________________ .ssS! |
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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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I Have been researching a little about the procedure. Mainly what I have found on youtube. So far I feel I should be able to figure it out. A/C systems are new to me as is my entire engine. Also my first diesel. Did the install myself. I like to understand all the systems in my van. |
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Howesight Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008 Posts: 3274 Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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A licensed shop will typically refuse to fill with RedTek which is, in fact, far more efficient refrigerant in the Vanagon application than R134A.
If you have or borrow a set of AC gauges and an AC service vacuum pump, then you can do it yourself.
I wrote a step-by-step how-to some time ago intended to help those who are handy, but have no AC experience. Have a look in this long thread at page 49 of the thread:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=960 _________________ '86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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I'll get on that. Thanks for the information! |
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GreggK Samba Member
Joined: May 17, 2008 Posts: 897 Location: Colorado/Philidelphia
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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So if you fill with RedTek you can go back and refill with R134a. What if you start with R134a can you switch to RedTek if you evacuate the R134a properly?
The stamp on my compressor calls for R134a and PAG46 oil. |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:39 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Your compressor doesn't care what refrigerant is used, but you want to keep the same oil as was filled in it at the factory, though you can always flush and refill with a different oil. I believe PAG oils are hygroscopic, so I'm not a fan. If you're going to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant like RedTek then to me it makes sense to just use a mineral oil, but that's of course just me. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22648 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Your compressor doesn't care what refrigerant is used, but you want to keep the same oil as was filled in it at the factory, though you can always flush and refill with a different oil. I believe PAG oils are hygroscopic, so I'm not a fan. If you're going to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant like RedTek then to me it makes sense to just use a mineral oil, but that's of course just me. |
They arent as bad as brake fluid for mopping up water, but if you are getting water into your AC system you are f*d for other reasons. Once you pull the vacuum and load the choice of poison, the system will sit at at about 2 bar pressure even in winter....no water should make its way in at all.
I pump mine down for about 4 hours, then let it sit under vacuum overnight and confirm its holding vacuum before charging. If not, find and fix leak.
My newest car is an 2006, all hold an AC charge for >4 years without needing a top off. _________________ .ssS! |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12115 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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I think the hygroscopic issue is with older leaky R12 systems sloppily converted to R134a and then just topped up when they leak out, which leads to internal corrosion problems due to atmospheric intrusion. The R134a system in our '94 Audi has never been opened or topped up. I don't mess with inoperable AC without first seeing if it will hold vacuum overnight, but that's not how most DIY types approach the problem. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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piruvan Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009 Posts: 147 Location: So. Cal
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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OK to mix PAG oil with the original R12 mineral oil when charging with RedTek? _________________ '89 Vanagon GL "Whitestar" Wolfsburg edition. 4-speed, 2.1L
'06 Accord EX-L 5-speed |
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avernon82 Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2015 Posts: 292 Location: Richmond,CA
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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My understanding is NO, PAG oil doesn't mix well with Mineral oil. in the circumstance, you use ester |
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piruvan Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2009 Posts: 147 Location: So. Cal
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: A/C oil and refrigerant choices... |
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So Ester and the old mineral oil are OK to mix with RedTek. I'm skipping the compressor removal/oil change until next summer, but my compressor oil level reads low. I installed a new receiver/dryer and I assume that has some oil in it. _________________ '89 Vanagon GL "Whitestar" Wolfsburg edition. 4-speed, 2.1L
'06 Accord EX-L 5-speed |
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