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What is the correct way to decrease the CO?
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pablovent
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:55 am    Post subject: What is the correct way to decrease the CO? Reply with quote

Hello ;

I am running the first miles with my Westy 1978 engine code CJ type4 2.0, dual 32-34 pdsit completely rebuilt (stock cam, stock CR, stock carbs) all seals and hose perfect .... In the first emission control the numbers were:

-Idle: HC 145 ppm - CO 6.34
-2.500 rpms: HC 152 ppm - CO 6.56

This numbers show aparently a fuel mixture too rich.....Before the emission control the carburetors were tuned without a machine (best idle run), and the timing with strobo light 5º BTDC iddle - 30º BTDC max at 3200 rpms.

For decrease the CO numbers and carburetors tune up work, will be necessary to reduce the jets size?.

Thanks...


Last edited by pablovent on Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:43 am; edited 3 times in total
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williamM
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

before doing much, I would go over the settings on you linkage,run the timing back a few degrees, get the motor broke in a bit and make sure your chokes are completely opening.

My fiat wouldn't come down on CO so we finally ended up dropping a cat into the exhaust- never did find out what was wrong.
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pablovent
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

williamM wrote:
before doing much, I would go over the settings on you linkage,run the timing back a few degrees, get the motor broke in a bit and make sure your chokes are completely opening.

My fiat wouldn't come down on CO so we finally ended up dropping a cat into the exhaust- never did find out what was wrong.


Yes, linkage setting fine, dual carbs sync with empi tool and chokes 100% open....engine run hot to 210º oil temps.
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williamM
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

any spec's on what the carbs are now- got pics of your set up.
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pablovent
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

55 idles, 140 mains, stock airs 155, 93 RON fuel....Sparks plugs looks very clean white and light brown....stock central air cleaner, stock style muffler, unfortunately I can not use a wideband because the exhaust system.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

It will be a while but I have a few of those, so can see what hey actually ran, there maybe a section in the "Technical" section here, or in the "without guesswork" books - probably from 73, as a 2.0 in USA T-4 motor had FI system.
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pablovent
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

Yes...this is the problem, my CJ type4 engine code not sale in USA with carbs.....stock jetting info 52,5 idles, 135 mains, 155 airs....

MY engine run really fine...the HC numbers are too small maybe will increase this numbers when decrease the CO...Just only I look for other similar tune up experiences!
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

Failing to salute in front of the Corporal...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

If this is a brand new engine.....do not worry about CO and fine tuning yet. Synch the carbs and make sure its neither excessively rich or lean.

Yes....the cam and lifters break in in 20-30 minutes.....but I have found the rings can take upwards to a few thousand miles of running to REALLY get sealed. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: stock type4 2.0 carbureted emmision control failled Reply with quote

pablovent wrote:
Yes...this is the problem, my CJ type4 engine code not sale in USA with carbs.....stock jetting info 52,5 idles, 135 mains, 155 airs....

MY engine run really fine...the HC numbers are too small maybe will increase this numbers when decrease the CO...Just only I look for other similar tune up experiences!


Yes, you are running into the common problem that a lot of people in the USA who have to have their classic cars checked have... modern emissions standards vs. cars that were built before they were mandated. It's ridiculous. Rolling Eyes

First thing I would suggest is to research and call around to see if there is a way your car can be exempted since it's all original stock configurations, in good repair, but still cannot pass emissions.

The problem you will have is that once you get your engine to where it will pass emissions, the changes you will make will very likely cause the engine to run poorly, too lean, and too hot.

If you change jets to pass emissions, you'll likely want to change them back once you get certification.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

Drop yours, install a buddies motor that passes. Re-install yours and break it in properly. Unfortunately skirting the law is the sane move. Do not, Do not try to get exempted! When your denied you will be flagged for life.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

My preference is the best air/fuel mixture for the first miles after rebuilt work...the emission control was only for this reason.....just I want not run too lean and not run too reach....Now is summer in my country and run too hot is very risky for a heavy bus.....thanks
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

Quote:
For decrease the CO numbers and carburetors tune up work, will be necessary to reduce the jets size?.


Probably not. Retard timing 5* to 0*TDC/25*BTDC @ 3200 . it should drop about 2 off the CO. If this is a new motor you need to drive it at least 10? hours at highway speeds before testing.

You may be too lean. Your HC numbers are low and your CO is high so it may be running lean at idle. Back out the idle mixture screw 1/4 turn and see if the CO drops.

You really need a wide band mixture tool/machine to tell you if your jets are the right size and if you may be running too hot. A Cylinder Head Temperature gauge would also be a good idea.

What number do you have to reach to pass?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

You may want to look at these two links.

http://www.ratwell.com/mirror/interro/techgas.html


http://web.archive.org/web/20060307212134/http://www.interro.com/techgas.html#anchorone
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

does Chili have smog tests on cars that old?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:00 am    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

[quote="scubaseas"]
Quote:


What number do you have to reach to pass?


SGKent wrote:
does Chili have smog tests on cars that old?


Thank you....In my country for old cars (old classic & carbureted up to´93) the emission control requirement must be done every 4 months and is measured in idle, 2500 rpms and 2500 rpms with a roller machine ..... The max numbers are only two: 800 HC and 4.5 CO%.

In my city (Santiago - 1.800 feet elevation)) unfortunately in winter times we have high pollution levels, so the old cars use in winter is restricted only to weekends.

But I just want the best and happy engine health, in the past I reheated my old engine (melted piston), also I had problems with high temperatures and valve seats dropped, so I want to stay in the safe zone timings and air / fuel ratio.

Best.


Last edited by pablovent on Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:32 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:21 am    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to lower the CO? Reply with quote

scubaseas wrote:
You may want to look at these two links.

http://www.ratwell.com/mirror/interro/techgas.html


http://web.archive.org/web/20060307212134/http://www.interro.com/techgas.html#anchorone


Thanks for the additional info!!
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scubaseas
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to decrease the CO? Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks for the additional info!!


De nada. más para usted

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/VDOGauges.html#cht

If you have melted a piston and dropped valve seats you definitely need to check your jetting and cooling system. And get a CHT to monitor things so it doesn't happen again.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=293837
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to decrease the CO? Reply with quote

I think you will have a hard time getting the HC dialed in until you get the engine broken in. I would try retarding the timing by a few degrees as that is very easy to do and is very readily reversible.

Assuming you have the carbs synched well:

-your idle mixture is controlled by the idle jet and the idle screw.

-low throttle opening mixtures are controlled primarily by the idle jet

and

-larger throttle openings mixtures are controlled by the main jets.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: What is the correct way to decrease the CO? Reply with quote

turn the idle mixture screw out on each carb just until the engine runs smoothly then slowly turn each one in until the RPM begins to drop quickly, then turn it back out 1/8th turn. Then sync the carbs and test again. If the engine hesitates when you step on the gas, open the idle mixture screws a 1/8 turn more. Set your timing so it is at 30 - 31 degrees before TDC at 3500 - 3800 RPM with any hoses off the distributor then put them back . See how that tests. If the CO is still too high turn the idle mixture screw in 1/16th turn at a time and try again. Make sure that ALL vacuum leaks are found and fixed before you start this.
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