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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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SGKent wrote: |
take a q-tip and rub it inside the throwout bearing guide at the bottom to see if oil is there - the input shaft is blocking that view. The inside looks dry but if there is oil there, and the puddle feels and smells like gear oil it might be the input shaft seal. I can't see any traces of oil on the back of the flywheel or the case behind the flywheel. Also the collection of damp but not wet clutch dust combined with the way it looks suggests that the leak could be from the input shaft seal. Have you ever checked the trans fluid level to be sure it is not overfilled? |
I didn't find any oil there just grime or grease (it was black).
The puddle of fluid is oil as it matches the color and consistency of the engine oil currently puddled on my floor:o
I have never checked the transmission fluid. For what it's worth there isn't anything leaking out of inspection (nut? Cover?).
I did buy a new input shaft seal but I haven't researched how to replace it and I'm hoping it doesn't require any special tools.
Here is a pic of the nose cone which does seem to be leaking and I really don't want to mess with it but I'll wait to see what the consensus is.
_________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab
Last edited by ivwshane on Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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replace the seal and O-ring. See if that slows or stops it.
The nosecone seal can be replaced. Usually while the nosecone is off one replaces the ball in the shifter mech and checks the relay lever bracket for cracking. Also if the main bearing is walking into the nosecone, which usually they do, then a steel plate is added. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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SGKent wrote: |
replace the seal and O-ring. See if that slows or stops it.
The nosecone seal can be replaced. Usually while the nosecone is off one replaces the ball in the shifter mech and checks the relay lever bracket for cracking. Also if the main bearing is walking into the nosecone, which usually they do, then a steel plate is added. |
Do you have more info or link that discusses the steel plate mod?
In a good transmission is the transmission bell housing supposed to be clean and dry? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Does anyone have the specs for the Type 4 flywheels?
Like this one for a Porsche?
The machine shop should have the specs. If they don't. Get them for them.
They will inspect it and let you know what it needs.
only cutting the clutch surfaces, does not require end play adjustment.
Open the link I provided for the Diesel pilot bearing. Wilthings can explain his modification for you.
Now is the time to check end play. So if you need shims you can get them on order.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+end+play+tool&a...ent=safari
Pull the transmission fill plug 17mm hex and stick your finger in there. Rub the gear oil between your fingers. Put a couple of drops on a clean white sheet of paper. Now pull the dipstick and message the oil off that and put a couple of drops next to the gear oil.
Which one is in the trans bellhousing?
The cam plug is that quarter size plug under the flywheel seal.
Good luck
Tcash |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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I'll need to buy the hex tool but I'll reply back with my findings. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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unless it is new the bell housing is never going to be 100% spotless. It should not be wet with oil however.
The mainshaft bearing has a halfmoon key that keeps it from turning on a 091. Regardless it moves a little and over time it wears into the soft nosecone. That allows the bearing and main shaft to move which throws gear mesh and adjustment out. The steel plate holds the main shaft bearing back in where it was before the nose cone wore in. The nose cone gets milled the thickness of the plate.
The area that is the big circle wears where the bearing touches it.
plate
you can see the spot for the halfmoon key in this photo. Large bearing at the top.
if that bearing and shaft move the gear mesh goes bad
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Thanks for the pics and explanation. Unfortunately that's way out of my comfort area.
As far as I could tell my transmission was great! I never had any problems with it and shifting was easy. I would rather not mess with it, I don't even feel comfortable opening the nose cone. If I ever did have problems though, I'd prefer to just buy a "new" one. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Tcash wrote: |
Does anyone have the specs for the Type 4 flywheels?
Like this one for a Porsche?
The machine shop should have the specs. If they don't. Get them for them.
They will inspect it and let you know what it needs.
only cutting the clutch surfaces, does not require end play adjustment.
Open the link I provided for the Diesel pilot bearing. Wilthings can explain his modification for you.
Now is the time to check end play. So if you need shims you can get them on order.
https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+end+play+tool&a...ent=safari
Pull the transmission fill plug 17mm hex and stick your finger in there. Rub the gear oil between your fingers. Put a couple of drops on a clean white sheet of paper. Now pull the dipstick and message the oil off that and put a couple of drops next to the gear oil.
Which one is in the trans bellhousing?
The cam plug is that quarter size plug under the flywheel seal.
Good luck
Tcash |
Alright! I got the right tool and pulled the plug on the transmission to compare oils and the puddle in the bell housing is definitely engine oil. My transmission fluid was just below the bottom of the plug like Bentley calls for and it looked brand new.
Do I need to find the spec sheet for the bus like the one you posted? If not where are these specs located (I would assume in the Bentley but where exactly)?
Also I'm looking for the rear driveshaft oil seal but, like a lot of things, there seems to be no consistency in what people call the part which makes searching for the correct part a pita for noob like me.
Is this the correct seal?
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D113%2D311%2D113%2DA2 _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Specs should be in the Engine section under Specifications in the Bentley under Clutch or Flywheel.
Note the input shaft is the one the clutch disc slides on.
That would be the Input seal u need.
When in doubt use the terms listed in the Bentley Repair Manual. So we know what you are describing.
Or use this dictionary.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/dic/
Good luck
Tcash |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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So I took the nose cone off and it looks like the steel plate mod was already done.
Here are some pics before any clean up has been done. Does anyone see any issues or concerns?
Where am I, exactly, looking for cracks? Am I looking on the inner shift lever or the bracket for the selector link?
Also, how do I remove the ball from the selector link ball joint?
And lastly, are these the specs I would be giving to the machine shop?
_________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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I really hate that I can't change the title of threads (for updates).
Anyway. I did some powder coating the other day and I'm happy about how they turned out. I had a little trouble getting into some recesses but for the most part my parts look pretty good.
With regards to the nose cone; I took out the shift ball, it was still plastic and it looked like it was ever so slightly warn. I'll be replacing that with a metal one. I do have a question about selling this up though. Because it has the metal plate, does that mean I will need two gaskets, one for each side of the plate? The OP used some blue sealant all over it, luckily (or unluckily) it comes off pretty easy. What's the recommendation here?
While cleaning the new used fan housing I got, I spotted an area of the case that had its original coating still on it, I thought the gold color was interesting.
_________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:22 am Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Does anyone have any recommendations for a place near Vacaville or Davis to resurface the flywheel and bore out the middle to fit the Diesel pilot bearing?
Also, does anyone have a part # or a link to the Diesel pilot bearing people recommend using?
Do I tell the shop to make the bearing sit flush? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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ivwshane wrote: |
Does anyone have any recommendations for a place near Vacaville or Davis to resurface the flywheel and bore out the middle to fit the Diesel pilot bearing?
Also, does anyone have a part # or a link to the Diesel pilot bearing people recommend using?
Do I tell the shop to make the bearing sit flush? |
Shane - the stock pilot bearing lasts a very long time so it might be easier to use that. The stock 2.0 flywheels are cast iron so I would try to keep any machining to a minimum. If the face is a problem contact Bugformance and see where they send theirs to. Del's Machine shop is probably one of the best local shops around but I have not given them a flywheel. We just did Colin's clutch and pilot bearing the other night when he was here - a good glass bead cleaned up the surface. It didn't have scoring. I used a slap hammer with a pilot bearing puller to remove the bearing. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:06 am Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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SGKent wrote: |
ivwshane wrote: |
Does anyone have any recommendations for a place near Vacaville or Davis to resurface the flywheel and bore out the middle to fit the Diesel pilot bearing?
Also, does anyone have a part # or a link to the Diesel pilot bearing people recommend using?
Do I tell the shop to make the bearing sit flush? |
Shane - the stock pilot bearing lasts a very long time so it might be easier to use that. The stock 2.0 flywheels are cast iron so I would try to keep any machining to a minimum. If the face is a problem contact Bugformance and see where they send theirs to. Del's Machine shop is probably one of the best local shops around but I have not given them a flywheel. We just did Colin's clutch and pilot bearing the other night when he was here - a good glass bead cleaned up the surface. It didn't have scoring. I used a slap hammer with a pilot bearing puller to remove the bearing. |
So you don't recommend the modification and just stick with a new felt pad and bearing?
I'll check the other two references you gave for the flywheel? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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Tcash Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011 Posts: 12844 Location: San Jose, California, USA
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. |
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So a little update:
I've got my new transmission, 99% of my parts powder coated, I've got all new nuts and bolts ordered or ready to go on. I've got an order for a new FI and alternator wiring harness on the way. I'm slowly replacing seals and gaskets. I'll be getting my flywheel machined within the week, hopefully.
I still need to replace all the shifter bushings. I still need to tackle the battery tray and I'm hoping I can tackle this job myself as I've never done any welding or serious metal work like what will be involved. After that I'll be replacing fuel hoses and getting my fuel injectors refurbished.
There is one part I am concerned about though and its my throttle body. Does this look bad?
(I have a light shining behind the plate to highlight any gaps)
I would love to have whip refurbish it but I don't see an ad from him offering his service to do it and the last I heard he was recovering from surgery and I don't want to bother him. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Any opinions on my throttle body? _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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Is there a good way to test for oil leaks while the engine is on a stand before putting it back into the bus? I was thinking about pressurizing it with my air compressor. I don't know if I'll be able to seal it up enough though. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51149 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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That TB doesn't look good, but the worse that can happen is a high idle, luckily it's not something that requires a major dig to swap when you do find a rebuilder.
Air pressure isn't going to help much for an oil leak test, running it on a stand so it gets hot and makes it's own oil pressure might make something show up. But even then those PITA ones only appear after installation, due diligence when installing seals can save you from that most of the time but even the pros get an unpleasnt suprise now and then. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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ivwshane Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011 Posts: 1920 Location: Sacramento ca
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Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: 1st engine drop & doing some maintenance. Alternator boot? |
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I'm actually having whip rebuild mine as we speak!! I should be getting it back within the week.
The reason for wanting to check for oil leaks (besides the obvious, looking for oil leaks), is that when I took apart this engine (not completely) I found most things were slathered in RTV and I'd like to avoid that if I can. I just don't have confidence in my ability to use RTV properly and more importantly, cleanly (unless you guys have some tips).
I cleaned all the mating surfaces and they look good with no pitting or anything.
I do plan on using RTV on the oil breather box but I'm concerned about the oil fill tube and the intake manifolds.
I'm also concerned about the pushrod tubes. I purchased new ones and powder coated them and used new seals but it just doesn't seem like the friction I felt between the tubes and walls would be enough to keep the oil from leaking (which was one of the sources of my leak before I dropped the engine). I did make sure the seals remained seated properly though when they were installed. _________________ 77 westy 2.0 FI
69 ghia coup 1600dp
70 single cab |
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