Auto-craft valve train....what would you do?

[norris]

I pulled my rocker shaft on the 1-2 side in order to shim the play between the rocker arms when I found the shell on #2 intake rocker needle bearing was broken. Fortunately the small piece of the bearing shell that broke off was still right there next to where it came from.

What's the advice of those of you who know? Can the needle bearing in that rocker be replaced? Would you go with different rockers?

The 2276 has 3k miles on it. It's never been hot....over 210F on my temp gauge. Runs perfectly.

The only reason I found this was that #2 had slightly more valve lash noise when warmed up set on preloaded loose zero, so I thought I'd check for rocker arm side to side play.

[risk]

The needle bearing can be pressed out and a new one pressed in.

But...

Autocraft made forged and cast style rocker arms.
I think those are the cast style.. not the best. Maybe time to upgraydd.

Nice ARPM case you have there. I run one too, bulletproof.

[norris]

What would you consider an upgrade? I don't see that Autocraft even offers rocker arms anymore on there website. Ive emailed them but haven't heard back. The engine was built back in the early 2000s by "Enginemasters" in southern California.

[jpaull]

Those are cool rockers for the time but theres no oil flow going to those bearings. Get some cb rockers of same ratio and you wont even have to switch pushrods, and you will get full time oiling.
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[norris]

I just got off of the phone with Autocraft....nice dude. He's sending me a couple of bearings and side play shims, but I'll look into the CB rockers.
How can I determine the ratio of the Autocraft rockers that I have?

[pondervwmike]

Im no expert but the only way I know how to measure rockers is to measure lift at the valve and compare it to the lift at the cam. Do you know what cam is in the motor?
_________________
1967 Cal Look Beetle Street Car in re-restoration,customization. Mom and Dad bought it in 1983 when I was 4.
2010 VW Tiguan
2000 BMW 528i
1997 Jeep Cherokee
2127cc build thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681556&highlight=

[esde]

I had some Autocraft rockers that looked the same several years ago. I had a few bearings fail, but never like that. Finally one bearing went, and it galled the rocker arm, and I retired them. When I found Samba, I read that they were not long lived, because they did not have a good oil supply. Maybe, with hoover mods to the oil system they would do better.
Curious about the cage breaking on the side, maybe there is something loading the rocker on one side?
SD
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[jpaull]

To me its not worth running them. Even if getting parts for free, the time and trouble is not worth it. Your just on borrowed time till the next issue happens, so why not go for a improvement now? You need to run more sideplay, per muffler mike he mentioned .015 so they can actually get oil splash inside. Then you get extra noise and issues like you just had as the bearing cage gets banged around from the sideplay.

If you get the replacement parts, you have a cool item that I think would sell easily. I sold my Pauters for exactly this reason.

I would prefer bushings with full time oil, as compared to rollers with no pressure oil.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[norris]

[pondervwmike]

If your running an Fk8 you should have 1.4 to one rockers. I would put money on it.

The way you would measure would be to install the rockers and turn over the engine by hand while measuring the actual valve lift at the retainer. You will need a dial indicator and some type of mount to do this. The FK8 specs are .382" Cam Lift, .534" Valve Lift with 1.4 Rockers. So .382" of lift at the cam multiplied by 1.4 equals .534" of lift at the valve. If for some reason if you have 1.25 rockers you would only get .478" of lift. But like i said the FK8 is always used with 1.4 rockers. If you have 1.25 rockers get 1.4's and redo the valvetrain geometry.
_________________
1967 Cal Look Beetle Street Car in re-restoration,customization. Mom and Dad bought it in 1983 when I was 4.
2010 VW Tiguan
2000 BMW 528i
1997 Jeep Cherokee
2127cc build thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681556&highlight=

[norris]

I don't have a dial gauge....guess I need to get one.
Is anyone familiar with Autocraft rockers that could tell the ratio by looking?
I seem to remember an early post that had pics of the Autocraft rockers comparing the ratios but can't find it now.

[clonebug]

[jpaull]

To find out the rocker ratio:

length of the valve side of the rocker arm to the center (or pivot point) of the rocker arm divided by the length of the Pushrod side to the center of the rocker arm.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[esde]

Here: you can measure the rocker with your calipers and get a close measurement. Of course, how it measures on the head might be different, but this will tell you if they are 1.25 or 1.4
I was checking some old bugpack rockers:

_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[Clatter]

IMHO, you are going to want to know what ratio your rockers are giving you in actual use.
No matter what rockers you use, or what ratio they say, you are going to want to know In Real Life what they deliver.
Too much variation in manufacturing the various parts involved here to leave it up to theory..


I have a set of those too.
On a motor that just spit a lash cap and bent a valve...
(1-2 side, as you might guess)

Still haven't had it apart yet to do a failure analysis; still too mad.
Just circumstantial evidence,
Take it FWIW,
But,
I always hated how much slop there was in those needle rollers.
The pads seem to wear flats in them really quickly, too.


The 'thrust angle' of the pushrods on a type 1,
Not being square to the lifter bore,
Seems ripe to play hell with not-well-pressure-oiled shafts..
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[jason]

What is the actual lift going to tell him? Get some 1.4’s or 1.3’s and see if they are set up right if not then do. Dont need to waste time if not going to be used. My brother had a set, seemed to wear super fast. They look like 1.4’s to me.

[pondervwmike]

Just get 1.4's thats what is supposed to work with an FK-8.
_________________
1967 Cal Look Beetle Street Car in re-restoration,customization. Mom and Dad bought it in 1983 when I was 4.
2010 VW Tiguan
2000 BMW 528i
1997 Jeep Cherokee
2127cc build thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681556&highlight=

[jpaull]

Finding out what he has first is wise.

If he has 1:4's now for sure, then he doesnt need to get new pushrods. If he finds out he has something other then 1:4's, he needs to get new pushrods.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[norris]

My measurement was 1.412 so I must have 1.4s.

Now I'll try to decide on which rockers. Fortunately I'm not on a budget. Just wish I had more experience! Are the forged CBs about as good as they come?

[sled]