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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

Seriously considering making a replica 82e for WWII reenactment purposes.

Been looking into this and it drives me crazy seeing the later "Fat Chicks" converted to play this role, they stand out like a sore thumb to me. I thought I might try to build a lot more accurate replica.

I will be starting with a roached oval body. I am aware of most of the numerous differences between a 50's era Beetle and a KDF era one.

My question is regarding the split window conversion. Kaefer-Nostalgie offers a split divider bar to repair the split windows that were converted to ovals back in the 50s, they say this would work to convert an oval, but would look strange. Does anyone know why?
I mean, were there big differences between the overall outside shape of the split vs. oval?
They do offer a conversion for ovals but at $600 it's pretty steep. I know there is a fiberglass conversion out there too but I'd rather do steel.

Any info would greatly help.
Thanks
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1956 Oval
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys


Last edited by Fifty-Eight Rag on Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Yustrn
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

The curve of the split is much sharper than an oval glass...look up a piece of split glass, then look at a piece of oval glass and you'll see why it's not a A to A conversion.
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

Yustrn wrote:
The curve of the split is much sharper than an oval glass...look up a piece of split glass, then look at a piece of oval glass and you'll see why it's not a A to A conversion.


Ah...now I see it. Subtle but different none the less.
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
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sled
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

Fifty-Eight Rag wrote:
Subtle but different none the less.



its not very subtle at all when you see an oval window that has been converted to split, it looks wack.


best plan would be to weld in a complete split window section, convert the doors to one piece glass with some old cal-look style kits, and weld in a split dash.

That would be close enough for reenactment purposes.

oh and of course bolt on things like bumpers/wheels/tail lights/popes nose..
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

For what it's worth, the 53-55 Oval has the ribbed doors of the Split Window and as others have said, the simple addition of a bar to simulate the Split window doesn't really look correct. As far as the stance of the 82E on the Kublewagen chassis, there are several ways to do it but probably the simplest and cheapest way ( having already tried other methods ) is to get a roached out " Thing " with all the running gear intact and replace the ( Ghia ) floor pans with Beetle floor pans and you will have essentially the chassis of what originated as the Kuble chassis in the first place and the added benefit of five bolt wheels and a really tough transaxle ! Also, the single window conversion is not particularly difficult or expensive but has the reputation of leaks and rattles. The Split dashes are hard to find and very expensive, but fibreglas repros are available if you don't mind eventually accepting cracks. Gene
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

geneL3c wrote:
For what it's worth, the 53-55 Oval has the ribbed doors of the Split Window and as others have said, the simple addition of a bar to simulate the Split window doesn't really look correct. As far as the stance of the 82E on the Kublewagen chassis, there are several ways to do it but probably the simplest and cheapest way ( having already tried other methods ) is to get a roached out " Thing " with all the running gear intact and replace the ( Ghia ) floor pans with Beetle floor pans and you will have essentially the chassis of what originated as the Kuble chassis in the first place and the added benefit of five bolt wheels and a really tough transaxle ! Also, the single window conversion is not particularly difficult or expensive but has the reputation of leaks and rattles. The Split dashes are hard to find and very expensive, but fibreglas repros are available if you don't mind eventually accepting cracks. Gene


Thanks for the info.
I have been looking around at Thing suspension stuff.

I'm also starting to think instead about building an 82e Kastenwagen Ambulance, due to a need in the reenactment groups in my area.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I remember seeing a slammed version of one of these on here a while back. I believe he made his replica a Reichpost mail vehicle.
I would want to do a fairly authentic looking ambulance.
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys


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geneL3c Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

The Reichspost repro was pretty well done, except for the " slammed " style which seems to be popular in some areas of the car hobby, builders choice. The reason I mention the Thing option is that it gives you the whole chassis when the pans are replaced, which on most of the cars I've seen in the " Thing " category on theSamba is the first part of the car to disintegrate and they are reasonably cheap since you don't need much else on the car. The earlier models which I don't see very often actually have reduction box transaxles like the original Kubelwagen had, but the later ones that are most numerous have constant velocity axles giving better road speeds. I have a '50 Beetle we dressed up as a " captured KDF wagen " that we used at airshows with a 48 star flag on the roof and black out headlights that really annoyed the German re-enactors, which I guess would have been your colleagues ? Gene
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

geneL3c wrote:
The Reichspost repro was pretty well done, except for the " slammed " style which seems to be popular in some areas of the car hobby, builders choice. The reason I mention the Thing option is that it gives you the whole chassis when the pans are replaced, which on most of the cars I've seen in the " Thing " category on theSamba is the first part of the car to disintegrate and they are reasonably cheap since you don't need much else on the car. The earlier models which I don't see very often actually have reduction box transaxles like the original Kubelwagen had, but the later ones that are most numerous have constant velocity axles giving better road speeds. I have a '50 Beetle we dressed up as a " captured KDF wagen " that we used at airshows with a 48 star flag on the roof and black out headlights that really annoyed the German re-enactors, which I guess would have been your colleagues ? Gene


Yes...I have considered the gear reduction boxes, but I would probably want to drive this thing to the events. I've driven split buses and 50 mph seems to be pushing it. I've decided that other than ride height, I'm not going to worry about being authentic underneath. I'll stick to external visuals. I'm going to run a stock 1600DP as well...just keep the engine covered up.
Yes, the Reichspost was very well done.

Funny that you mention the captured KDF wagen...I considered the same thing for a brief time Very Happy I have the utmost respect for the veterans of our country, but I realized that in order for these reenactments to be accurate, there has to be two sides...even if we know one side was wrong. My long time love for VWs and a need for more German vehicles has kind of directed my path.

I'm brand new to the reenactment thing. An old friend of my daughter's is really deep into this stuff and has piqued my interest. He is part of a "German unit", so hence the opportunity to provide an accurate replica for the education of the public...and maybe a little fun on a couple weekends Smile
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1956 Oval
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys


Last edited by Fifty-Eight Rag on Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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Second Air Force
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:36 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

Well, as far as captured vehicles go, my dad drove a Kubelwagen he appropriated in Tunisia from when he got it running until 1st Armored moved to the Italian peninsula. He told me it was a better vehicle for certain conditions than a Jeep and his unit repaired another one for his boss.

Good luck on your plan!
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

Second Air Force wrote:
Well, as far as captured vehicles go, my dad drove a Kubelwagen he appropriated in Tunisia from when he got it running until 1st Armored moved to the Italian peninsula. He told me it was a better vehicle for certain conditions than a Jeep and his unit repaired another one for his boss.

Good luck on your plan!


Through my recent searches, I've turned up numerous photos of captured vehicles being used by both sides. Also, with all the KDF cars surfacing from the eastern European countries, I guess they were spoils-of-war, so to speak.
I have a German army issued cz27 pistol that was one of the numerous things brought home from WWII by one of my uncles. They overtook a company that was transporting weapons and some of these weapons ended up coming home with the GI's
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys
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bakersam
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

You need to check out what Sam Steel offers for a rear window conversion (http://www.repuestossam.com/en/beetle/split/s001.html). Unlike K-N, his kit includes both the inside and outside panels. Big difference from K-N and important to know before ordering. Steel is shipping from Spain which will add for shipping as you'd imagine, but you'll get everything you'll need for the conversion. He also has the split dash in steel (http://www.repuestossam.com/en/beetle/split/s039.html ). Don't go the fibreglass route as it'll eventually crack from the stresses on it. I purchased both from Steel and was happy with the product. Turns out my project fell through and I sold them here on the samba last year. See (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2098268) as these are the dash pods Steel supplied me too. "vwmanrw" purchased all my no longer needed split conversion parts and may have more remaining than just this single ad. May come as close as one stop shopping as you can get. Good Luck! BTW...skip the reduction gears and simply install a set of adjustable shocks on a Bug pan to give you the ground clearance you seek while being able to run fast enough on the highway not to be run over by an errant moped.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

bakersam, I have been trying to order split parts from Sam Steel for the last six months with no luck. All I get is " Due to work load, orders will not be accepted until further notice ". His web site is still active, but there is no response to e-mail requests. Anyone have further info as of recently ? Gene
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

fifty-eight rag, I'm currently working on a Typ87 repro which was a 4WD Sunroof that supposedly was used in N. Africa, although confirmation so far has been elusive. My plan this time around after seeing several detailed Typ 82E projects on theSamba, is to use Barndoor Bus front spindle and drum assemblies and Kublewagen axle housings on a full synchro tunnel housing transaxle to get the correct ride height. Had I done a little more research I would have opted for the Thing chassis I mentioned as more practical, less work and certainly more economical. It took considerable time, money and a lot of driving to collect the parts. My plan is to simulate the appearance of the Typ 87 without the complexity of 4WD, which, according to folks with experience with VW 4WD such as the Schwimmwagen, made for a terrible road car. I had a '57 Sunroof with an adapted Bus transaxle and front end lift kit, which made for a combination of the top speed of a Bus , as you mentioned and a terrible front end bounce due to the limited shock travel. You might be surprised to know that the original Barndoor Bus in 1950 was created with Kublewagen technology for the raised front spindles and the reduction box transaxle ! Gene
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

bakersam wrote:
You need to check out what Sam Steel offers for a rear window conversion (http://www.repuestossam.com/en/beetle/split/s001.html). Unlike K-N, his kit includes both the inside and outside panels. Big difference from K-N and important to know before ordering. Steel is shipping from Spain which will add for shipping as you'd imagine, but you'll get everything you'll need for the conversion. He also has the split dash in steel (http://www.repuestossam.com/en/beetle/split/s039.html ). Don't go the fibreglass route as it'll eventually crack from the stresses on it. I purchased both from Steel and was happy with the product. Turns out my project fell through and I sold them here on the samba last year. See (https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2098268) as these are the dash pods Steel supplied me too. "vwmanrw" purchased all my no longer needed split conversion parts and may have more remaining than just this single ad. May come as close as one stop shopping as you can get. Good Luck! BTW...skip the reduction gears and simply install a set of adjustable shocks on a Bug pan to give you the ground clearance you seek while being able to run fast enough on the highway not to be run over by an errant moped.


Thanks for the info.
I think I've pretty well decided to go the ambulance route. Folks attending these reenactment events occasionally get to see replica type 82e's. The rarity of this type vehicle and the fact that I wouldn't have the expense of the rear window conversion is my reasoning. I'll have enough things to look for just from the doors forward.
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

I got the same reply from sam steel, but ultimately got a reply "Please re-order in Feb" last month.

To 58 rag, I restore pods and have some that are not worth fixing. I have scavenged the usable parts off of them, but if you wanted something well aged and non functional (switches) I'd be happy to donate. Sounds like a fun project.
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

johnshenry wrote:
I got the same reply from sam steel, but ultimately got a reply "Please re-order in Feb" last month.

To 58 rag, I restore pods and have some that are not worth fixing. I have scavenged the usable parts off of them, but if you wanted something well aged and non functional (switches) I'd be happy to donate. Sounds like a fun project.


Please PM me at your leisure about details...very interested.
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1956 Oval
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys
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Fifty-Eight Rag
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

geneL3c wrote:
fifty-eight rag, I'm currently working on a Typ87 repro which was a 4WD Sunroof that supposedly was used in N. Africa, although confirmation so far has been elusive. My plan this time around after seeing several detailed Typ 82E projects on theSamba, is to use Barndoor Bus front spindle and drum assemblies and Kublewagen axle housings on a full synchro tunnel housing transaxle to get the correct ride height. Had I done a little more research I would have opted for the Thing chassis I mentioned as more practical, less work and certainly more economical. It took considerable time, money and a lot of driving to collect the parts. My plan is to simulate the appearance of the Typ 87 without the complexity of 4WD, which, according to folks with experience with VW 4WD such as the Schwimmwagen, made for a terrible road car. I had a '57 Sunroof with an adapted Bus transaxle and front end lift kit, which made for a combination of the top speed of a Bus , as you mentioned and a terrible front end bounce due to the limited shock travel. You might be surprised to know that the original Barndoor Bus in 1950 was created with Kublewagen technology for the raised front spindles and the reduction box transaxle ! Gene


Very interesting! Would love to see photos Very Happy
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1956 Oval
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1956 Oval build thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

1962 Single Cab Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7959298#7959298

1967 Beetle Restoration
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=495269&highlight=larrys
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geneL3c Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

JohnHenry, In Dec I got the reply, re-order in Jan. In January I got the reply, " due to work load..............." I'll try again. Let me know if you get a different response, regards, Gene
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

I don't know why we all get that goofy message from Steel as they're most certainly in the office (I just purchased something from them this week). They'll return emails despite the "Out of Office" response. You may need to pulse them a second time to get their attention...Not a great way to get business... Regardless, the ambulance idea sounds easier, more fun, and less expensive as no one knows much about the ambulance version save the few period photos. By all means have fun with it, but don't dig yourself into a hole you can't afford to lose when it comes time to move it along. Replicas are great, but at the end of the day they're still just that.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: WWII era Beetle Reply with quote

fifty-eight rag, don't have much to show at this point, I'm prepping the body to hopefully go to the body shop in the next few months when they notify me I have a time slot. I've been sand blasting and priming parts in the mean time and modifying the doors for single piece windows, etc. I have most of the parts but still trying to find some elusive pieces. I'll be doing the chassis mods in-house and machine work to adapt the front spindles. Body has the usual lower rust issues. Gene
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