1600 into 1960

[Redlines]

I'm still a couple months away from installing a 1641 with dual kadrons and heater boxes into my '60 bug with '67 transaxle. I've read a lot on the somewhat minor snafus that arise when installing, but how is it easier to install the heater boxes after the engine is in? At 68 yrs. old it seems like contorting myself to get to the nuts may be more tan i care to go thru. I've read that denting the firewall in a bit for added clearance can also be done. The car does have a removable apron, but don't know if that will make a difference. Also, what's the best way for sizing up the rear tin work for cutting. A cardboard template perhaps or just plain trial and error. Any one know of a video of this. Thanks!

[57BLITZ]

[Dake]

AIs this the same on a 62 mine had a 1600 fresh air system on it ? I don't see any cutting that has been done to mine.

[57BLITZ]

[Danwvw]

Also, the 1967 Trans may be a tight fit for a 200mm flywheel engine. Depends. It may machine it's self a little.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[57BLITZ]

[EVfun]

[rcooled]

[57BLITZ]

Another source of frustration can exist if the 1600 engine case has the insert for the top-left "bell-housing" bolt . . .
The '67 transaxle is designed to lock the head of the bolt in that location . . .
I used my Dremel tool to grind away the flats by the bolt hole in the trans case to make clearance for the bolt to turn with a wrench.
Some folks simply use a large washer under the bolt head.
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Jesucristo es mi Señor y Salvador!

[Rome]

Removed rear apron is a huge plus to get the engine in. The original '60 "H"-style apron comes up higher than on a '61 and later. The apron comes up higher and runs forward, which reduces the amount of room you have fore-and-aft to maneuver the engine in. Having no apron at all lets you slide the engine straight forward on the jack with all the room in the world (OK, all the room in the garage).

Now as to the 1600's heater boxes, I fully agree the only way you can get the engine to clear the '60's lower firewall outer curves is to have the HBs off. Unfortunately the right HB is the hardest to get back on. 30 yrs ago when I had a '56 Beetle with a '66 engine, and I installed a '70 single-port with stock HB I found this out. This photo of a '58 Beetle clearly shows the interference problem. The generic replacement firewall tarboard's bottom edge is cut for the later 40hp (and later 1600-engined Beetles). The higher outer contours of later firewalls allows the fresh-air style HB to clear the firewall during engine installation. The exposed sheetmetal is the factory '58 contour which would be the same as on your '60. If you have a later tarboard, you could use it on your '60 to mark the firewall bottom edge, cut off the lower strip and reweld the rubber seal channel higher up to match the later contour. Then you can install the engine with the HB installed. Yes, lots of work, but it would avoid your under-engine contortions in the future.

If you don't modify your firewall bottom edge, there are 3 key preparation issues to get the 1600 HB to fit on after the engine is in place. 1. While the engine is still out of the car, clean up all 4 of the front head studs where you'll be fastening the HB using M8 x 1.25 die. You want to be able to spin the nuts onto the threads with 1 or 2 fingers and no effort. 2. With the engine still out of the car, coat the 4 front head studs with anti-seize grease. Your fingers will thank you next time you remove the HB for an engine removal in the future. 3. You'll need a sideways-curved wrench in the size of your HB fastening nuts (either stock 13mm OD or 12mm) because there is no room to get a normal wrench or socket onto one or the other of the right HB fastening nuts once the HB is loosely back on. The starter is in the way! Even with the sideways-curved wrench such as a carburetor removal wrench, you'll only be able to rotate the wrench about 1/8 to 1/4 turn at a time between the cramped confines of the underside of the rear luggage area and the transmission.

I actually never tried to remove the starter to get the right HB on easier... this might also be a shortcut for you.

redlines, my first Beetle was also a '60 way back in the mid '70's; VIN 3092993. I sold it only a few years later and appears to be out of the DMV sy records when I checked in NY about 15 yrs ago. My dad and I installed a tired 40hp 1200 stale-air into it so that I never encountered the fresh air HB interference until I had the '56.

[57BLITZ]

[bluebus86]

youll need a vented deck lid or stand offs, as the later dog house fans suck more air and at high rpm and when engine is under load, consuming lots of air, a vacuum is pulled, causing the engine to choke. I experienced this after putting a stock 74 1600 in my 61 Bug, zippy up high on a freeway, engine would choke everytime until , I stood off the bottom of deck lid about half an inch or so, now it does not choke out.

Of course I assume your using the later dog house fan system, if not, nevermind.

Good Luck Bug On, No Matter What Pushes Your Bug Along!
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[Danwvw]

I must have had an earlier transaxle in my 67 but ran Into this when I changed engines.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Redlines]

Ok folks, the pictures tell a thousands words. Thanks. They are giving me some options, among them, to just bag the heater boxes and go with the J tubes. The HP's are in really good condition and since upstate can get pretty cool in the Spring and Fall i figured they'd be a good idea. Other major point is about the '60 only trans mount. I've got a new 60 only mount, bus nose cone and hockey stick. Am I going to have to weld in a different mount? I had planned on using the '67 transaxle because of the ratios but also have a rebuilt '64. And I'm abit confused now about this engine angle. Is this something I need to be concert about?????? Thanks!

[Teeroy]

Use the 67 trans, best matchup for a 1600 based engine (as long as tires are close to stock height). Use the bus nose cone and hockey stick. Use the 60 only bolt in mount and you will bolt together a d shift fine. Now because the angle of the frame horns is slightly different on a 60, the engine may hang a little lower, I have done 2 myself, 1 came out close to level, the other was low. If yours is lower than you want at the muffler after bolting together, your option sould be to weld in a 61 up style mount with some added height adjustment (compensate for frame horn angle)
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[EVfun]

The stock 1960 transaxle and the 1967 transaxle used with the 1500 engine have almost exactly the same gearing. The 40 horse transaxle has noticeably lower gearing (meaning higher engine rpm at a given speed and gear.)

Here is another thread on the engine position issue unique to the 1960.
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[Redlines]

So how much clearance at the firewall is actually needed? I can see where it can be butchered/cut so the heater boxes will fit, but has anyone ever taken a hammer or other persuader and just dented in the firewall for the necessary clearance?

[caleb0101]

you're going to want to install the engine without any of the exhaust on and without the tin piece closest to the rear apron, it's a tight fit but it can be done without any modifications to the car.
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Ruby red 1967 beetle sedan with a 2021cc
1967 beetle sedan baja project
April 60 euro spec ragtop beetle with a 1641cc

[57BLITZ]

[Redlines]

Since I haven't yet tried to install the engine with or without the heater boxes, please bear with me on this next question. Its just hard for me to visualize how if you can't get the engine in with the heater boxes on because they hit the firewall, how would you be able to get them on with the engine installed. Wouldn't the firewall still be in the way???