Decambering swing axle for best performance, numbers needed

[smitty24]

Hey guys, I've been making constant changes to the rear of my '64 for a couple years now. It is hard to get solid answers, even from the suspension gurus. I'm attempting to decamber the rear of my '64 but want the best performance it can offer. I'm going to be tearing it all apart and changing everything very soon.

Right now, I have the horseshoe style drop extensions, combined with sway away adjustable spring plates, CB compensator, and GR2s. Run close to stock now out back, so having all this isn't even necessary anymore. (Extensions drop 2 3/4" but it was too low for me with family in car. I run they reversed now to yield stock plate angle and NO drop. Adjustable plates are also set stock.)

Question 1: If I lower the rear 1.5 - 1 3/4" max without drop plates, would it be enough to prevent oil from reaching bearings and tearing up parts? I've ran close to that before and think it still was detrimental to performance in some ways. Basically 1 outer spline, IIRC.

Question 2: at what point do swing axles struggle to oil the bearings and start to put added stress on axle spades/fulcrums, drums? (Like a 3 inch drop? 2? 4??) Is the general rule to keep the swing axles as flat as possible on a horizontal axis, for best performance and long term longevity?

Any opinions and advice is great! I like to hear everyone's experiences.
Thanks guys!

[smitty24]

I will rephrase this question: at what point are axles too high to lube bearings and add extra wear on the other parts? Most guys say 2 outer splines starts to wear parts quick and can’t lube.

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

No Guru but.. ..... some experience.

Not sure what you want to perform the best.. and why you want to alter rear specs.. ???
Stability?
Tires?
Handling?
Looks??

Assuming.. .. parts life longevity..

The general saying.. change one thing it effects ten..


Swing axles.. ah yes... the constant varying camber and toe.... saggy bottom .. but puckering snap over steer suspension axles we hate to love. ..

Smitty.. c'mon you know all of this already..

I know... I know ... just want that confidence all will survive..

The static level of the fluid is very close to the tube lower surface.. so bearings get natural gravity lube.. plus there is some pumping via gear turning at the center and forced down the throats. Oil return back to the transaxle case is gravity. so... negative.. camber makes it naturally harder to keep the bearings wet.

Once the axle tubes are angled inward.. (negative) it can shorten life longevity of outer bearings... but a little negative camber is ok..
With Camber 0 to negative 1 degrees the outer bearings will get a splash some lube just driving along.. making turns in normal daily driving. Its the long haul steady state turnpike driving that can cause an issue.

Axles do go up and down with roads and bumps.. so.. will go negative to positive.. to negative.. to... . .. well you get the gist..

Extreme negative camber obviously WILL create outer bearing issues but more so it works the axle paddles fulcrum plates to death.. bad idea... or show only..
Kills tires..

I have found negative 1 is ok and generally wont cause an issue driving daily.. negative 1.5 eh a stretch.... but once its dumped past negative 1.75 degrees.. .. it will.

Using the 2 Outer splines.. or.. "Clicks" method kind of depends on the torsion bar condition, year, weight and original angle.

IMO.. set it no lower than negative 1.0 Camber. Tires will suffer a little..

If you routinely add family and weight to your car use air shocks.. or set it negative 0.50 and ride on.. It provides some decent stability and tire life is not sacrificed.

Use adjustable plates set max height set to 0 Camber and tubes level.. and tune it down.. So much easier..

And yes.. tubes level is ideal for parts survival.. Just look at 1967/1968 VW swing axle camber specs.. VW would not have sacrificed anything that may have cost them a service warranty repair..



I'm sure ( and know) there are Dubs running around.. with negative 2 and lower.. and owners will say.. .they've never had an issue.. but 10-1 odds there are not being driven like they were when they were not just big toys..

.
_________________
aka Ken {o\!/o}
Its your vehicle- stop askin' for approval-do what YOU like for cryin' out loud
Better to roll em' how you want and wear em' out-than lettin' em' rot out
Its about the going not the showing
Rebuilt to drive not decorate
WANTED: Local Eatin' Joints, Triple D for TheSamba contributions here http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=570510
Search "VOLKSWAGNUT" on YouTube since you cant watch a "certain" BELT change video round here
Usually and often edited

[modok]

Running very low you get far more bump steer, so while running more than 2 negative it may improve cornering a bit more I don't think it's worth it for the odd tire wear and bump steer, not to mention the loss of travel.
I think it is better to go up on the torsion bar size to reduce the amount it jacks and keep at at 1-2 negative. Result is same.
The camber compensator does the same as bigger torsion bars, BUT does not stiffen roll stiffness. This is good if you keep the front sway bar mild. If you go with a BIG sway bar then IMO skip the camber compensator and go 24-26mm torsion bars.

If the bearings die.... get sealed bearings. I've went 20,000 miles on the left wheel bearing with it a 3 negative and it's still fine. The right one died but I think that was caused by heating the brake drum to glowing and hammering on it remove the stuck drum. To replace it I put in a used bearing from a 1962, not worried at all.

Sorry to say I see no point in funky spring plates or odd extensions to get around the factory stops. I found only 3/4" of additional travel past the factory stop is possible. Hardly worth going after. Your results may vary, try it yourself. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=567022

[smitty24]

[modok]

I don't really know. I bought them from CB, they seem ok for $ spent.
Early bugs also used mid length 24mm bars, should be some for sale used.

Be aware if you raise the spring rate a lot you will probably need to get stronger shocks to match a stronger spring rate.

I'm running some Michelin defender tires, 185-70-14, made in the UK, most profound grip. i was expecting to be underwhelmed with these -minivan tires-, when I bought them but instead my mind was blown and my clutch slipping soon after. I don't know if the tires are magic or it's just a good combination on a swingaxle, but that was the final piece of the puzzle for me. They are available in 15" also