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CHenige
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
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 Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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Guys, still here! Read every post and keep learning. Had some fun this past summer when we could. Son's sandrail is in garage and working to make it street legal.
One issue we had last year while dinghy towing was the headlamps were on when the trucks headlamps were on. I have diodes but perhaps I used them wrong? Please see the diagram.
thanks again!
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71StandardReduction
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Joined: December 04, 2012
Posts: 715
Location: Louisiana
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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How you have drawn in diode into your diagram (which is very well done) leaves a little bit of confusion ...
This is what I did on my FG buggy....
Wiring going forward to tow vehicle are on a 4 pin connector at front of buggy and umbilical stays zip tied to tow bar...
Funny thing is as soon as I did this I got a trailer.... Go figure...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Dale M.
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Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| 71StandardReduction wrote: |
What type of switch are you using for headlamp/rear run lamps?
It appears that you have those two powered from the same source and perhaps the same wire?
Are the rear stop/rub a dual filiment bulb or separate bulbs in a single housing? |
Switch really has nothing to do with it unless something is cross wired....... Headlights probably come on with tail/markers... Its all about diode placement...
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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71StandardReduction
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2012
Posts: 715
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
| 71StandardReduction wrote: |
What type of switch are you using for headlamp/rear run lamps?
It appears that you have those two powered from the same source and perhaps the same wire?
Are the rear stop/rub a dual filiment bulb or separate bulbs in a single housing? |
Switch really has nothing to do with it unless something is cross wired....... Headlights probably come on with tail/markers... Its all about diode placement... |
If the cathode end were wired in towards the switch then the tailights wouldn't come on from battery sourced power?
Ah wait a tick...
I miss-saw... I see where the towing vehicle wiring taps into the diode.
_________________
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64 Pan Buggy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
Ruby Red 1966
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=779597&highlight=
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CHenige
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| 71StandardReduction wrote: |
What type of switch are you using for headlamp/rear run lamps?
It appears that you have those two powered from the same source and perhaps the same wire?
Are the rear stop/rub a dual filiment bulb or separate bulbs in a single housing? |
fancy marine type rocker switch. Self lit icon.
power comes from switch into headlamps with one wire and another wire goes into Diode which then goes to running lamps
Have one set of led lamp strips which have separate wires for stop and for running. Stop will also blink.
Also another set of LED lamps for turn and for stop.
These have been installed since we had the front lamp issue and are not related. Have not finished installing rear lamps |
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CHenige
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
How you have drawn in diode into your diagram (which is very well done) leaves a little bit of confusion ...
This is what I did on my FG buggy....
Wiring going forward to tow vehicle are on a 4 pin connector at front of buggy and umbilical stays zip tied to tow bar...
Funny thing is as soon as I did this I got a trailer.... Go figure...
Dale |
Dale, I believe your diagram is opposite of this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVvbJoH2DRQ
It says you put the inputs in from the double tab side and the lamps go on the single side. Ideal is that the diode puts both signals through but does not let either feed the other.
But here is how it is at a website:https://www.etrailer.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/f/a/faq070_ss_1000.jpg |
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Fenix
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Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:04 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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The schematic dale shows allows you to use a standard electrical diode, not nessisarily e-trailers significantly overpriced “pre-wired” diode relay. But you have to have a strong enough diode to cut the flow. This is because a diode is simply a one way resistor. Electricity flows easily one way but is heavily restricted the other. If you know where to get them you can get a pack of 5 12v 6amp schottky Diodes for 6.88 shipped. On that setup you also need to be sure to have the buggy powered down before connecting the 4way to the towing vehicle.
Are you sure the diode is functioning properly? Take it off and apply voltage to each lead and measure what if any voltage bleeds through the other lead. Should be close to zero assuming it is working properly, but anything higher than 1v is a sign it is a dead diode.
Last edited by Fenix on Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CHenige
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Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| Fenix wrote: |
| The schematic dale shows allows you to use a standard electrical diode, not nessisarily e-trailers significantly overpriced “pre-wired” diode relay. But you have to have a strong enough diode to cut the flow. This is because a diode is simply a one way resistor. Electricity flows easily one way but is heavily restricted the other. If you know where to get them you can get a pack of 5 12v 6amp schottky Diodes for 6.88 shipped. On that setup you also need to be sure to have the buggy powered down before connecting the 4way to the towing vehicle. |
I do remove the main fuse. G |
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Fenix
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Joined: October 05, 2016
Posts: 468
Location: St Louis
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:24 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| CHenige wrote: |
| Fenix wrote: |
| The schematic dale shows allows you to use a standard electrical diode, not nessisarily e-trailers significantly overpriced “pre-wired” diode relay. But you have to have a strong enough diode to cut the flow. This is because a diode is simply a one way resistor. Electricity flows easily one way but is heavily restricted the other. If you know where to get them you can get a pack of 5 12v 6amp schottky Diodes for 6.88 shipped. On that setup you also need to be sure to have the buggy powered down before connecting the 4way to the towing vehicle. |
I do remove the main fuse. G |
Just disconnect the buggies battery. Or pull the kill key if so equipped.
Check your diode, sounds like it’s dead or shorting to me.
With the e-trailer setup I don’t believe you have to disconnect the battery because each lead is supposed to have a diode to prevent feeding back either line. |
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Yennek
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Joined: March 26, 2008
Posts: 34
Location: The great PNW
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:34 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| I think you are 95% there. Just move where the tow vehicle currently connects to the other side of the diodes. If the tail lights work when just driving the rail normally, then you have the diodes installed in the correct direction already. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| CHenige wrote: |
| Dale M. wrote: |
How you have drawn in diode into your diagram (which is very well done) leaves a little bit of confusion ...
This is what I did on my FG buggy....
Wiring going forward to tow vehicle are on a 4 pin connector at front of buggy and umbilical stays zip tied to tow bar...
Funny thing is as soon as I did this I got a trailer.... Go figure...
Dale |
Dale, I believe your diagram is opposite of this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVvbJoH2DRQ
It says you put the inputs in from the double tab side and the lamps go on the single side. Ideal is that the diode puts both signals through but does not let either feed the other.
But here is how it is at a website:https://www.etrailer.com/merchant2/graphics/00000001/pics/f/a/faq070_ss_1000.jpg |
The e-trailer setup is sort of irrelevant to my design hardware.... I use a simple (single) "blocking diode" to prevent any feed back into towed vehicle electrical system, but it does not block any towed vehicle signals to feed back into towing vehicle.... IF towed vehicle (dingy) is in use the umbilical from towing vehicle is disconnect so it does not need to be blocked...
With my concept the lights of towed vehicle are simply trailer lights and blocking diodes make towed vehicle electricals non existant....
https://www.the12volt.com/diodes/diodes.asp
Put more simply current only flows in direction of arrow
This is style of diode I use...
Physically E-trailer has combined two diodes (in black box) with separate anodes for inputs and cathodes are tied common for outputs (rear lamps).. They just tied to make isolation diode(s) idiot proof by using two diodes per circuit...
What puzzles me about you first post and diagram, headlights of towed vehicle should be totally isolated from any power from towing vehicle (by head lamp switch) ....Period!... This is on assumption large rectangle on far left is you headlights or light bar (you tags could be little more descriptive ).. Is your headlight switch the one in center of the cluster of 3?
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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DWP
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Joined: September 11, 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Pa.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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Where did you connect the wires that go to the towing harness? Before or after the diode?
The way you have it drawn in the picture looks wrong. The splice for the trailer plug need to be after the diode. In the drawing the splice is before the diode.
This allows to power to feed all the way back to the buggys light and brake switches.
Another problem that I learned the hard way, hours of searching, Check ALL ground wires and connections.
DWP |
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Vanillagurilla
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Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:44 am Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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Sounds like the running lights are tied into the headlights somehow. When I put led brake/turn/tail lights on my baja the running lights and dash lights would come on when you pressed the brakes. I came up with this solution, it's a tail light converter for older cars towing trailers with led tail lights. I wired it in between the factory rear light harness and the led lights. Works great and I added a 4 way harness from the front of the car to the back so when I tow the baja I just unplug the connector at the back by the motor and plug the 4 way for towing lights to the connector wired directly to the tail lights. The converter puts the diodes in the correct place without any guess work. I can take more pictures if you want. I added a picture of the wire colors of the factory harness on a 69 vw wired into the converter.
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cbeck
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Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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I saw a key phrase on a earlier post, do the head and tail lites turn on with the same switch at the same time ie can you turn on only running lites without turning on headlites?
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www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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Vanillagurilla
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Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| cbeck wrote: |
| I saw a key phrase on a earlier post, do the head and tail lites turn on with the same switch at the same time ie can you turn on only running lites without turning on headlites? |
Yes on my 69 you can. |
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CHenige
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| cbeck wrote: |
| I saw a key phrase on a earlier post, do the head and tail lites turn on with the same switch at the same time ie can you turn on only running lites without turning on headlites? |
I think I used some incorrect terminology. One set of front lights are regular halogen front headlamp bulbs. The other single light is a long LED lamp that will be used as a bright. No running lights.
One switch controls the front halogen headlamps and taillights. The other switch controls the LED bar as brights.
thanks |
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CHenige
Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2016
Posts: 219
Location: Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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Here is what etrailer shows with this setup.
From what I understand the sand rail input and the tow vehicle input go into one side of the diode.
Then a single output goes to the tail lamp.
The diode allows either input signal to go through to the tail lamps but keeps them separate until the output wire. The diode keeps the signal from backing up the other side.
I did send my diagram to etrailer and will hopefully have an answer tomorrow.
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Vanillagurilla
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Joined: November 21, 2017
Posts: 1061
Location: California
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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| CHenige wrote: |
Here is what etrailer shows with this setup.
From what I understand the sand rail input and the tow vehicle input go into one side of the diode.
Then a single output goes to the tail lamp.
The diode allows either input signal to go through to the tail lamps but keeps them separate until the output wire. The diode keeps the signal from backing up the other side.
I did send my diagram to etrailer and will hopefully have an answer tomorrow.
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The adapter I posted does this itself. Just wire it in to the stock rear harness and then the out to the tail lights. Easy, simple and cheap. I think it was $15 at autozone. |
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cbeck
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Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: sand rail wiring issue. Headlamps on while towing |
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Looking at the 1st schematic. Shouldn't the trailer lite harness be connect to the tailites on the tailite side of diode to prevent back flow up wire 18 towards front lites? ps, nice legible drawing 
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