Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Rusty sunroof pan.
Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tjk68
Samba Member


Joined: January 03, 2017
Posts: 1
Location: Canada
tjk68 is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:11 am    Post subject: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

Hello, I have a 1971 bay, with sunroof, it has rusted out at the rear of the pan where it drains and connects to the drain pipes, just wondering about ideas of best way to repair this?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 27170
Location: Nor Cal
SGKent is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

it you want it done right the top has to come off after drilling spot welds, then the sunroof pan, and the reinforcement area. Then make the replacement steel. Because three pieces of untreated steel come together, and because the area sweats from condensation, almost every sunroof bus made will have some rust in this area after 40 - 50 years. This is one reason I don't recommend sunroof buses to folks unless it has already been restored. I had the damaged areas on mine filled in with a zinc process.
_________________
machine work recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine:
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

Setting Engine Timing: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/Timing.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jack_O_Trades
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2014
Posts: 75
Location: Bay Area CA
Jack_O_Trades is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

I have the same issue with my 69. The passenger side rear corner is rotted out. I'm look at tackling this from below without removing the roof.

I think I can replace the section that is rotten from below but then my concern is with getting the remaining rust stabilized and sealed up.

SGKent,

what are your thoughts on trying to do this from the access you have through the sunroof channel? I was thinking of using the POR15 system to treat the remainder of the rust.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 27170
Location: Nor Cal
SGKent is online now 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

there are layers. The rust forms in between and eats away all the layers from within. I have no idea how someone can fix it properly without disassembling it and reassembling the pieces after they are individually repaired. The rust can be slowed significantly with a zinc repair after digging the rust out.

roof
pan
support pan
supports

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...t=roof+pan



.
_________________
machine work recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine:
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

Setting Engine Timing: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/Timing.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jack_O_Trades
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2014
Posts: 75
Location: Bay Area CA
Jack_O_Trades is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
there are layers. The rust forms in between and eats away all the layers from within. I have no idea how someone can fix it properly without disassembling it and reassembling the pieces after they are individually repaired. The rust can be slowed significantly with a zinc repair after digging the rust out.

roof
pan
support pan
supports

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...t=roof+pan



.


Yeah, I remember seeing that thread awhile ago and am lucky enough not to have rust in those areas.

My issue (and what sounds like the OP's) is towards the rear of the vehicle where you only have to work around the roof, pan, and support. However, the rust doesn't seem to exist anywhere around layered steel.

From the bottom side you can see the rot. My plan is to surgically remove the support piece to get access to the pan and replace a section of the pan

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



From inside the channel you can see the surface rust forming on both sides. This is what I would like to stabilize and protect with the POR15 system, or Ospho and paint. I haven't really used either and I'm open to suggestions.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
SGKent Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 27170
Location: Nor Cal
SGKent is online now 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

the rust is also there between the layers - it just hasn't broken thru yet. The problem is condensation gets in there on the untreated metal and forms rust between layers, especially near the spot welds.
_________________
machine work recommendations: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/machinework.pdf

Pointers on rebuilding an engine:
http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/rebuilding_a_vw_engine.pdf

Setting Engine Timing: http://kentcomputer.com/77VW/Timing.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
lil-jinx Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 998
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
lil-jinx is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

Depending on what level of restoration you're doing,you could just spray it with fluid film or other rust protection spray to prevent further rust,then add a respray to your yearly maintenance routine.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Abscate Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 7034
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
Abscate is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

I think thats a major Fuster Cluck to get that rust out of there - a serious piece of body work. It doesn't make a lot of sense to POR one side of rusty metal.
_________________
.ssS!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jack_O_Trades
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2014
Posts: 75
Location: Bay Area CA
Jack_O_Trades is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

I started digging into this problem and think I might have an action plan.

I started drilling out the spot welds on the passenger side starting from the rear and working my way forward. There are two rows of spot welds on each side that you have to get to.

Initially I just wanted to peel back the supports to assess the damage. Upon further inspection on both sides the damage is more extensive than I originally thought (this is where you can say I told you so).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I'm actually more concerned with the driver side rust. From the opening of the sliding sunroof to the rear of the vehicle the pan is attached to the roof panel with the supports and some kind of foam sealant. It looks like on the driver side, the foam let go or was never attached. It doesn't look compressed. This allowed any water that would have pooled in the pan to evaporate and condense on the unprotected portions of the roof panel.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



From a cursory visual inspection, it looks like all of the rust is isolated to the rear of the vehicle (behind the sunroof opening). Just playing around with drilling out the spot welds of the supports to the lower pan, and tugging on the pan it looks like the rear half of the pan could be removed if you decouple if from the supports. It seems evident that the it's not that well attached to the roof. My thoughts are that if you cut the pan, just before the spot welds of the pan to the roof (on both sides), then drill out all the support spot welds and bend down the supports; you could drop the sunroof pan.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


With the pan down, it makes addressing the rust and rot a lot more realistic.

Is this a crazy, dumb, half-assed attempt at the repair?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Jack_O_Trades
Samba Member


Joined: August 14, 2014
Posts: 75
Location: Bay Area CA
Jack_O_Trades is offline 

PostPosted: Yesterday 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Rusty sunroof pan. Reply with quote

Today, I butchered my bus. There was more cutting and drilling than I initially thought. In general, I started from the rear and worked my way forward. I first cut through the rear supports. I then drilled out all the spot welds on both sides of the pan. I then pulled back the supports so that I would be able to drop the pan.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



On each side fo the pan there are two cross member that need to be cut back. I originally cut them free of the pan but realized that they still captured the pan because of the lip around the pan. So they had to be cut back. With the rear two member cut, The pan is free to drop/sag.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I then moved to the middle of the pan or the rear of the sunroof opening where I would make my two cuts in the pan dropping only the section I was interested in. I wanted to take the middle drain ports with the pan so that I could work on some rust damage on these. This was trickier than expected. The cutting wasn't too bad but unexpectedly, the pan was spot welded to the hidden third layer of material. This is a piece of metal that reinforces/stiffens the sunroof opening (as shown in this photo).

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



The spot welds are hidden by the under pan support. So, I had to cut and bend pack the support. I was hoping to avoid cutting the support but there was no way around it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



With all the cuts made, and the spot welds drilled out, the pan was free and clear to come out.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



And here are the fruits of this PITA. And now it should be easier to stabilize and repair this rust.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2016, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB