Lower ball joint hurting steering Knuckle. Really need help

[Fiorenzo]

Hi all Vanagon friends! I am new to this forum but i have been following it time to time.
I own an '83 Vw t3 westfalia high top. I am doing a complete restoration of it but it will be to long to explain it now, maybe later on a different message.

I really need help for a suggestion beacuse i am stuck with something very strange.

After rebulding all the suspensions with new silent blocks, new ball joints, shocks and springs i have got this problem:
The tip of the lower ball joint touches the back of the steering knuckle when the camper is lifted.
Before the rebulding there was about 1 cm (if i remember well) of play between the tip of the lower ball joint and the back of the steering knuckle.
Of course or something is going wrong or before the rebuilding was the same way, but i did not think it was.

So I spent a lot of time thinking what could be possibly wrong and i thought that maybe the shock absorber was longer than the stock one allowing to much extension.
Because i have put new shock (sachs touring) i have take them down and checked if they were the same lenght of the stock one... Actually they are 1 cm longer... Very strange.
So i switched again for the stock shock absorber and checked if now the tip of the lower ball joint was again touching the back of the Knuckle, and it sadly was....
So the problem is not due to the shock.

I thought also that the lower ball joint could be different and longer than then stock one.
So i checked the lenght of the new Febi ball joint and it is about 4 to 5 mm longer than the original Vw one so the tip is in a taller position, but i still think the problem is not here.

The only way to regain the play between the tip of the lower ball joint and the back of the knuckle is to lift the lower control arm with a jack lift... It needs about 2 to 3 cm of lift to regain that 1 cm play...

Please have a look to the photo attached (with all the parts put together is the same)

Now what I am asking: is normal that with the front lifted from ground the steering is stuck due to the lower ball joint hurting the steering knuckle?
Should something limit the range of movement of the suspension system?

I have tried to adjust the camber to gain a less inclination of the steering knuckle to earn some space between its back and the tip of the lower ball joint but it wasn't sufficient...

I am really stuck with this and i am not sure if it was supposed to be as it is now.
I will really really appreciate your help.

Thank you in advance

[MarkWard]

I see a lot of fresh painted parts. I have a vague memory that some of the suspension parts are unique to the side of the van they mount on. Did you mix up sides? The interference is the tip of the ball joint and you admit the new ones are a tad longer. Assuming it is all assembled correctly, I'd not have a problem dressing the ball joint tip with grinder. The suspension is rarely in full droop, so if it is clear with the suspension loaded, you are probably fine.
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[Steve M.]

If you did install "Lift Springs" did you also install the "Upper Ball Joint Spacer" to correct the alignment problem?
I did not see any installed.

This is what I am referring to:
http://www.gowesty.com/product/ball-joints/4356/upper-ball-joint-spacer-kit-?v=

I am not sure if this will give you more clearence at the point where the Lower Ball Joint is touching, but it will help in alignment.
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[Fiorenzo]

Hi, thank you to all for the replies. Yes it is all fresh painted with two pack anti rust epoxy paint and a final coat of poliuratane paint.

I have installed standard springs and them seemed to be the same lenght of the original one. I payed really attention to do not mix parts from left to right I will post more photos to eventually check it.
I remeber that before rebuilding the suspension the Knuckle was clear to move, but i am not 100% sure.

Regard grinding the tip of the lower ball joint i think it would not be sufficient because when i compress the spring with the jack lift i see that it needs some quite compression (about 3cm) to free the Knuckle.

[Wildthings]

Looking at my 83 1/2 it seems like the distance between the eye on the steering knuckle and the bottom of the eye on the control arms is greater on yours than on mine. Really hard to tell for sure as mine is sitting at its normal ride height.

[Fiorenzo]

Some new photos

And here with the spring compressed

[Fiorenzo]

[Steve M.]

I like your choice of color for the paint.

Have you put the tires back on and lowered it back to the ground yet?

Putting weight on the suspension I think is going to open the clearence. That is what "Wildthings" is saying.

Try putting a jack under the steering spindle/knuckle and jacking the T3 up and see what happens when you compress the spring.
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[Steve M.]

[Wellington]

Been a while since I've done mine but..........
Are you certain the lower ball joint is fully installed? The retaining ring has been installed on the bottom side?
I would have no issue cutting the top of the ball joint spindle, the lead-in area, do not touch the threaded section.
Febi ball joints don't have the best reputation, maybe you want to just do it now and replace them with Lemforders or Moog.

[Jake de Villiers]

Can you show us a photo of what the lower ball joint looks like at the bottom? Like Wellington, I'm thinking the part should be deeper in the upright.
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[alaskadan]

Is the bushing installed in the bottom of the upright? There have been threads about those getting left out unknowingly.

[Wildthings]

With my 83 1/2 sitting on level ground with its weight on the wheels, the distance between the two eyes is about 1 inch or 25mm, your looks to be in excess of that. The two eyes appear to be very close to parallel as well.

[Steve M.]

Look at his first photo, it's bottomed all the way in.
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This free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.

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[Fiorenzo]

Here we are, i have put the new brake disk and ball bearing on and lowered the camper.
The tip of the ball joint was still in contact with the knuckle and the suspension stuck.
So I have done some tire alignment expecially I worked on the camber because it had a lot of negative angle. I set it to the maximum positive angle that was possible trying to earn some clearance between the knuckle and the tip of the Febi ball joint.
Now when the tires are in straight position there is about 1mm of clearance, if you turn the steering all the way will happen that one ball joint will lose all the clearance and the other one will gain a lot, at least 2 cm.
I was told that the Febi ball joint are good replacement but I am beginning to think they are not... If i think all the work i have done to repaint and install them....
The ball joint is full installed and the retaining clip is in. I have a strong hydraulic press.

I tried the suspension hopping on the bumper of the camper and compared to before the reconstruction now them are much stiffer.

Could some one make some photo of the tip of the lower ball joint when the tires are straight ahead?


Here are some new photos i have done today:



Negative camber on the tire before adjusting

Tip of ball joint in contact before adjusting camber

Tip of ball joint after adjusting camber all the way positive, you see 1mm clearance

Tip of ball joint scratching the knuckle when turning the steering in the " bad side "

A lot of clearance when the tire is turned on the " good side"

JP springs installed and stiffness green coded

[/b]

[Fiorenzo]

[Fiorenzo]

[Wildthings]

[Fiorenzo]

[Fiorenzo]