| Author |
Message |
Wyly28
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2018
Posts: 1
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:32 pm Post subject: Oil breather hose |
 |
|
| When I had a single carb on my beetle I had a hose that went from the base of the air cleaner down to the oil tube. Now I put dual carbs on and I have no place for the hose to go to from the oil tube. I bought a oil breather box (stand up type) but it does not come with any fittings for the air cleaners. I have a 1600cc and don’t think I need to run hoses to the valve covers. Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Oil breather hose |
|
|
You don't need a breather line to the air cleaner.
I ran a breather hose into the fender well with a button foam filter to keep the dirt out.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Oil breather hose |
|
|
| Glenn wrote: |
| I ran a breather hose into the fender well with a button foam filter to keep the dirt out. |
You MONSTER!, keep talking like that and Al Gore will pull up in front of your house with a black SUV full of thugs and prop your eyelids open with toothpicks so you won't miss a minute of all of his films as he puts on a private screening for you. 
I'm sure your engine is in tip top health and doesn't make a whole lot of blowby, but we know little of Wyly28's, maybe it'll clog that filter in a few miles? Aircleaner base fittings are available from almost any VW supplier, ones that cater to dune buggies are particularly useful in this case. I'm not a greenie by any means, but why not burn off that crankcase funk down the carb in case those ozone layer doom sayers are even partially right?, if you don't you'll risk being responsible for your grandchildren's skin cancer.  
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76939
Location: Sneaking up behind you
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Oil breather hose |
|
|
| busdaddy wrote: |
| Glenn wrote: |
| I ran a breather hose into the fender well with a button foam filter to keep the dirt out. |
You MONSTER!, keep talking like that and Al Gore will pull up in front of your house with a black SUV full of thugs and prop your eyelids open with toothpicks so you won't miss a minute of all of his films as he puts on a private screening for you. |
Unless that SUV is a EV, then it pollutes more in a year than i do driving my Beetle.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4419
Location: Stuck in Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Oil breather hose |
|
|
I thought I was the only one! There are others!!! 
Enjoy the madness...
| Buggeee wrote: |
The time has come. The time is now. We are going to reconcile the camps, mend the fence, build the bridge. Aftermarket carb and air-filter crowd, put out your arms. Stock carb and air-filter crowd, you do the same. Closer now.... Get in there dog, big hug.
So the stock air-filter has two vacuum ports that serve different functions. One port has a tube that shares the vacuum situation with your crank case, through the pipe in the top of your oil filler. Here is link to an excellent Wiki article on the history of why that is important to the internal combustion engine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankcase_ventilation_system
Basically, the slight explosion blow-by that sneaks past your piston rings into the crank case with every firing creates a positive pressure situation inside your case (stuff pushing outward). That pushes oil out of your case anywhere it can go. Your seals are not really designed for this pressure situation, and you will leak. Also, the combustion blow-by has harmful contaminants that will degrade your oil if the fumes stay in there and let them migrate into your oil.
So, the vacuum situation from your air-filter, shared by the tube to the top of your oil filler neck, creates a negative pressure situation in your crank case (stuff pushing inward). This helps keep the oil sealed inside the case, and helps remove the fumes that would contaminate your oil, burning them up in the combustion process. All good stuff.
When people have nothing to do with the little pipe on top of the oil filler, they can top it with a little miniature filter thing. That, however, does not create a negative pressure situation. At best, that helps reduce the amount of positive pressure present in the case. Plus I've heard they are kinda messy but I wouldn't really know.
Before I go any further, the "road-draft" tube on these later motors, running down from your oil filler neck to under the car, is not really a road draft tube. That was an old-time way of creating vacuum by air rushing past the bottom of that tube at speed. Now the tube merely functions to allow water vapor to condense in that top part of your oil filler thing and drain harmlessly away as droplets. For this to work, and to keep the system closed in order to maintain vacuum, you need one of these rubber caps on the bottom of your tube.
You can get them from the parts suppliers on the internet but you have to cut the slit that belongs in the pinched tip of it because they forgot that was necessary. After you cut the slit in that you can pinch it with your fingers and it will talk to you like those little rubber coin purses used to. Hello there little rubber thingy.... "Well hello there to you too Buggeee Boo"
Next, the second vacuum port on your stock air-filter is to keep your garage from smelling like a gas can, and, even more importantly, to keep well-wishers and gawkers from asking "Is your tank leaking? I smell gas!" when they crowd around your bug in the grocery parking lot on a really hot August day. Here's how that works....
The late gas tank caps are vented one way only, inward, so air can come in as fuel is used. When the tank gets hot though, and gas pressure builds (remember that red balloon that used to be your lawnmower gas can you left in the sun last summer?) the vapor pressure can't get out the cap, so it gets out a little tube vent in the top of the tank. Run a hose from there to the underside of your front end and you will have fumes in your garage and fumes emanating around your car on hot days. Unseemly. Plus probably not good for the air. But because we are a classic car forum, I'll stick with unseemly.
So that tube from the gas tank vent instead runs to the charcoal canister under the right rear fender where the fumes get absorbed into the charcoal. Then, when the motor runs, the fan shroud blows air into that canister and, simultaneously, an air-cleaner vacuum hose sucks the fumes out of the charcoal, to be burned in the combustion process. Good for your reputation, good for the air, and no horsepower cost to it at all. I'm for it.
Here's a long thread that will help you kill a sleepless night if you're interested in the details:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=389074
So, I have two tiny cotton filters on top of my dual carbs. What to do... what to do...
I went to Napa and got 5 feet (I think) of 1/2 fuel type hose. I got 4 L-shaped 1/2 inch fittings a couple of 1/2 inch tees. Then I popped the chrome metal cap off the air-filters, exposing the soft rubber reality of their construction
I got some black silicone (Nappa)
I cut (afraid the drill would tear into it) a couple of just a wee-bit too small for the fittings holes in the top of each air filter, put some silicone on the L-fittings and wiggled them in. Then, from the bottom, I took a little cutting from the end of the half inch hose to act as a clip or whatever, and put silicone on that. I dropped it down in to the belly of the filter onto the tip of the fitting that was poking inside.
Then I flipped the screwdriver over and used the handle to push that little rubber hose piece over the barbed end of the L-fitting, letting it snap into place, so to speak, over the barbed end. Now, the L-fitting is secured into the top of the air-filter. I could never have gotten a little nut into that spot to secure a nut-on fitting you know.
Then I ran the 1/2 hoses from each carb to T-fittings. One of those then has a hose to the oil filler neck. The other is ready to plumb over to the charcoal canister once the motor is in the car. Neat, tidy and... Balanced. The whole system (hoses and two filters) pops off as a unit for cleaning the air filters and then pops right back on.
In that last pic the air shroud fitting is for a hose leading to the charcoal canister, and there will then be a hose leading back from the charcoal canister to the open fitting on the carb system. (I'll just block those two off until the vapor recovery system and charcoal canister are in place and ready to go).
I'm going to add a little hose bracket or something to secure the hoses to the shroud at the top where I have easy access to it for removal and cleaning of the filters.
So there you have it. It's not much, but the thoughts and well-wishes are genuine. What do you say guys? We're all one big team again? I've done my part, the rest is up to you... |
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
goober
Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2003
Posts: 1183
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Oil breather hose |
|
|
This doesn't necessarily apply directly to your situation but might be food for thought.
I have stock 1600cc sp's in my '69-'70 Bugs with stock air cleaners. The stock air cleaner not only pulled vapor from the crankcase but did that in a regulated way. A weighted-flap in the air cleaner blocked the vacuum draw as rpm went up.
I could never find a recommended adjustment for the proper action of the weighted flap. But the flap worked with the 4500 rpm max of the stock engine tapering the vacuum draw.
When changing air cleaners, either eliminating or not regulating the vacuum draw from your crankcase, you're altering the VW setup. On the stock engine there was no front seal allowing the crankcase to see atmosphere.
A strong constant vacuum might pull dirty air into crankcase helping to contaminate the oil. A weak or lack of vacuum might build crankcase pressure. This could force oil/vapor past the slinger depending on the condition of your engine.
This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Buggeee
Samba Member
Joined: December 22, 2016
Posts: 4419
Location: Stuck in Ohio
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Oil breather hose |
|
|
| goober wrote: |
This doesn't necessarily apply directly to your situation but might be food for thought.
I have stock 1600cc sp's in my '69-'70 Bugs with stock air cleaners. The stock air cleaner not only pulled vapor from the crankcase but did that in a regulated way. A weighted-flap in the air cleaner blocked the vacuum draw as rpm went up.
I could never find a recommended adjustment for the proper action of the weighted flap. But the flap worked with the 4500 rpm max of the stock engine tapering the vacuum draw.
When changing air cleaners, either eliminating or not regulating the vacuum draw from your crankcase, you're altering the VW setup. On the stock engine there was no front seal allowing the crankcase to see atmosphere.
A strong constant vacuum might pull dirty air into crankcase helping to contaminate the oil. A weak or lack of vacuum might build crankcase pressure. This could force oil/vapor past the slinger depending on the condition of your engine.
This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it. |
Fascinating. I will definitely stick to my obsessively excessive oil change habits. It's the one part that wears out the fastest and is the easiest to replace.
Thank you for the insight.
_________________
1966 Sportsmobile Camper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
72 Super Duper http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=672387
(adopted out) 61 Turkis Pile https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=728764
| SnowDaySyncro wrote: |
| Every setback is an opportunity to learn stuff and to buy new tools. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
