My new baby! Auction of fake 23-Window Bus

[VWcollector1]

[nestbedding]

I can definitely say now that the history of the bus has been traced and it was NOT from out of the country. In fact, it was tracked down to the inland valley and the rear windows were cut into it, the front end was replaced due to a crash. It was purportedly originally a 21 window with the apparently likelihood that someone who acquired it after the guy who had the windows cut in welded in a different VIN number.
_________________
56 CKD RHD Oval
57 low light
59 Subhatch
60 RHD Subhatch
62 Cabriolet
63 double cab
63 patina bug
64 notchback

[Busstom]

[VWFIXER]

So, hopefully without ruffling too many feathers. Does anyone know where this frankenbus ended up?
_________________
( ) Cheap
( ) Fast
( ) Reliable

Choose 2

Over a million air cooled miles driven and 15,000+ cars serviced.

[Sash_Bay]

An awesome read! Great story and goes to show I know nothing of the split world of these type 2's. I am happy the owner got solvent and I believe a lot of people learned a thing or two by following this.

I have asked this question for sometime now. The point was raised many times in this thread, but it still hangs heavy over my head. At what point do these restorations no longer represent what they originally were and thus the value should reflect the altered change in model. The going rate for a 21/23 ragtop bus is outlandish, but in my opinion only the original model is worth the ownership. I see a lot of bus builders/owners that take a standard and turn in into a 21/23 rag. Example: what is happening at Skinner with Kona the bus. That bus is no longer what it was made as. It should have a altered title. I respect Skinner to the nth degree. I also respect Bergsma's choice of what to do with his bus. HOWEVER, his choices havw made his VW a fake 21/23 ragtop. The title, in my opinion, should reflect this drastic change.

I just bought my first split, a 65. I plan to make the metal as it came from Germany. The suspension, color, motor, transmission, interior will all be mine and able to make stock at any given time. If I were to make a 13,15,21,or 23 then I believe my title should be marked as "altered"

Maybe wrong thread, maybe wrong place. But this thread links to a lot of discussion of late in my VW friends circle...at what point is it not what it was??? And how should that be officially be acknowledged?

[Braukuche]

[Sash_Bay]

I agree, but most people have zero clue what a Mcode is, where it is located, and how to decipher it. IMO, the title should be "altered".

[Erik G]

[Abscate]

[Roger Lockhart]

as long as "kona" or any ohter bus isn't listed as a real 21w/23w bus I don't see the problem. My bus will be converted from 11w to 21w. but it will always be a "fake" 21w with the original 11w title.
just like MicBergsma, I want it to be a 21w bus insted of the original 11w.
and yes, we know it's not going to be as valuable as a real 21w. but it dosen't matter. I'm not in this hobby for the money.

[Sash_Bay]

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying. I believe anyone should be able to do with their property as they see fit within the confines of the law. I am just saying that down the road when the bus is sold or there is a transaction of ownership there should be a concrete way to identify that it went from an 11 window to a 21/23.

With the panels and technology today you don't even need a bus to get a 21/23 window. You can just order one from Classic Steel Body and add a Mcode tag to it. In 50 years even less people will know the difference and be able to identify the stamped VIN. Or presumably care if it is German or not, considering the market of the Brazilian buses of late. And again, if I fell into a cool Brazilian I wouldn't hesitate to own one....for the adjusted price.

Is there ever a concern that someday the Standard 11 window will be more rare than the Deluxe 21/23? lol, could you imagine that. I find the story in this thread, combined with the current trend in restoration a very interesting topic and an indication of where the hobby is headed.

[notchboy]