Type 1 Transmission Gusset Question

[Kizbo]

Gentlemen, when adding a magnesium Gusset(s) to your Type 1 tranny, like the Weddle Gusset shown below, what is the standard way of going about it?.... Do most just add (1) below the side that the Ring Gear is located, or are (2) usually added - one on both side of the case?

[mcmscott]

Depends on how much welding you want to do and how much distortion you want to deal with
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[Kizbo]

[Vanillagurilla]

Has to be welded under water or something like that. Probly better off with hd side covers and a through bolt mod.

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Cases of those I've seen keep a Type 1 trans alive have only had one on the ring gear side. When asked the preferred installation method, I've gotten everything from side covers torqued, to no side covers, and oven preheated case, to warmed up with a propane torch around the weld area. Gears has had success with the Rhino cases, and a throughbolt outside of the diff cavity.

[Bruce]

[modok]

I recall the advise of weld only 1/4 inch at a time.
Not sure if that is right. I'd probably try to "back-stitch" it 1/2" at a time, but stuff like this I take it to a pro. Lots of different techniques.
Welding is an art.

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[Casting Timmy]

Here's some notes I read off thesamba

One guy used old steel crown side covers on the box when he welded it.

Mag and Aluminum both weld better if you clear off the oxide layer as it takes a lot more to melt. On mag you even want to clean off the rod, which 61A comes to mind. You can confirm that as Berg sells the rod by the oz, but I found the best price off of Amazon for it.

You also don't want to forget to clean the gusset itself.

Aluminum and mag will flow from the inside out almost when welding if you don't get that crust off.

Eyeball Engineering made the Girdle and Ron Lummus makes engine mounting plates, both I think would help as well. I wonder if with engine plates if the gusset is even needed. External side plates tied to a mid mount plate between the gear carrier and case might do the same or better as well.

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I was kind of assuming the cleanliness, but yeah, it all needs to be perfectly clean, almost shiny magnesium. Interesting that Bergs gusset plate is .625 thick, while samba member Anthony Merjano's (AXAM) gusset is .368, and Weddle's is .250. Also interesting that Berg uses a gusset the entire length of the rear case, while the ones I have seen being successfully used are the small "crescent moon" ones AXAM/Weddle are selling.

Gears is the only person I've known to use the through bolt method without a gusset. He is also the only one that I have known to run 9.30's at 145+ in the mid 80's with a Type 1 trans. I always thought of Lummus' engine mounting plates to be just that, a way to mount an engine/trans in a chassis without frame horns. I suppose they would "capture" the main trans case to add some support. Running a tube chassis car imo has passed the practicality of a Type 1 trans. At one time the Ultimate Aircooled Forum was the top performance forum for Aircooled VW's on the net. I posted a thread about Eyeball's Girdle, and not many even knew it existed. No one had ever used one, or saw one ever being used.

[Kizbo]

This is good info guys, I'm definitely learning a few things on this one so thanks for the input! Normally I wouldn't even bother with beefing up a case, but this will be on a "live axle" (solid axle) mid-engine rail I'm tinkering with...so it would seem almost essential to strengthen it with a gusset being that it has no suspension. I've even seen one picture of a similar set-up that had a gusset on the top of the case.

[oldschool5er]

I will share as I have done this a few times:

I heat them in a oven at 250 for a half hour to bring the oil out, then degrease and clean. AC Tig but you must use Magnesium filler rod. I gusset both sides on early cases and internal through bolt using 10mm case cylinder studs. Mod the reverse drive gear. Old way of doing it and external girdle is better, but it worked for me on budget builds where a Rhino was not used. I primarly did this with using old school Speed Unlimited steel side covers on both sides on swingaxles.
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[gears]

[maui]

a friend of mine in the mid 70s Frank Abraham of Kailua transmission used to put 2 through bolts [8mm case studs] in our trans with one steel crown side plate and it held the R/P together real good. Remember Red Rider ghia of the 70s. I do it to my trans even now with double H/D side plates and it seems to be working.

[gears]

Ironically, old style through-bolts will work for a flipped ring gear, while they will do virtually nothing for a standard (left side ring gear) build.
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'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
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[Kizbo]

[gears]

There's a couple studs allowing easy through-bolts, which will benefit a ring gear that's trying to escape from the top forward.

Re standard installations, studs at the bottom of most cases don't permit through-bolt substitutions. However, a Rhino case with 2 full circle side covers allows a single effective (external) through-bolt in the PERFECT location (bottom left forward).
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

[Kizbo]

[gears]

The two are certainly not mutually exclusive. It's a simple matter to through-bolt the Rhino case.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com