Beetle 1960 1200 conversion to 1600

[DJG66]

Hi all!

There is a 1960 undergoing a resto mod... and now, the time has come to think about the engine.

The matching numbers 1200 block is OK and ready... for what? The full 1600 conversion kit is ready, but the question is: would the smaller oil channels and the smaller oil pump be an issue?

Anyone who has done it, or has any experience with that?

All advice is welcome! Here is the Beetle:

[bluebus86]

nice looking car!

so you want to bump up a 1200 case to a 1600 size? well I suggest you get a dual relief case, and start from there for best results, as vw eventually went that way..

for oil pump if your running the same rpms as before, the stock pump and passages should be ok.

note when vw did make the bigger motors they did eventually increase engine cooling vents by adding deck lid louvers, a prop upped deck lid is an option if this becomes a concern

frankly Id consider a late dual port dog house fanned motor for your car, much improved cooling for the bigger motor, given your climate, that is probably a good idea.



good luck, Bug On!


PS what engine kit do you have, what pieces?
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[Cusser]

I'm going to put my 2 cents in and say build up the matching number 1200cc engine stock since you have a nice restoration going. And get a separate 1600cc engine you could swap in if desired.
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[caleb0101]

i would just buy a 1600 and swap it in and leave your original engine alone
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Ruby red 1967 beetle sedan with a 2021cc
1967 beetle sedan baja project
April 60 euro spec ragtop beetle with a 1641cc

[andk5591]

Here is my 2 cents based on my fairly stock 65. It was a little to weak to fully enjoy, so I did the big bore kit (1398?) and carefully tuned, which involved rejetting as well. The car still has the stock geared tranny. This car runs as well as most stock 1600's except that I dont have the top speed because of the gearing. Not claiming that this engine has quite as much HP as a stock 1600, but its close enough.

That said - depending on what your goal is - If its like mine, do a big bore. No machining except possibly clearancing the case on #3 - lots of write ups on this.

If you want a bit more power, then go with a 1600 based engine and keep your stock 1200 in the event you ever want to sell the car or put it back in.
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D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
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[DJG66]

Thanks for the replies!

This is not mine - it is owned by the guy who is doing my '66, with many a Beetle resto under his belt. I am talking here on his behalf, as his resto skills are much better than his English

He had recently built a 1776 from a F engine, so the appetite for adventure is obvious

Anyway... I was also thinking that a 1385 would be a better bet. 1600 sounds a little too much for the humble 1960 1200 block.

Asking the obvious, before I do a search: any links detailing the 1200 to 1385 build? Sorry if it has been done to death and back!

Oh, and none of the Beetles will be living here in the desert... they are both in Belgrade, Serbia (currently -10° Centigrade and lotsa snow...) so the cooling should not be a big issue, except in the summer, when it can hit 40° Centigrade.

[andk5591]

Honestly - I am not aware of a 1600 conversion done on a 1200. Not saying it can't be done, but it seems that everyone that goes big starts with a 1600.

The one thing that I had mentioned was the transaxle gearing. With stock gearing, I think your top speed is around 70 MPH, but I wont cruise in mine much above 65 even though it will do it. If you dont have large hills to deal with and you are doing any work on the transaxle, you may want to consider a taller 4th gear to allow for better higher speed cruising, if you think that you may need it. The shorter ring and pinion in the early transaxles will give you decent accleration from a stop, but more 4th will drop cruising RPMS.

I dont have particulars for what would be recommended, but I just want to throw out the idea.

The big bore kit for the 1200 is surprising and I did mention tuning that I did. I know for a fact that I stepped up the main jet on the 28PICT1 quite a bit and it made a substantial improvement on the dyno. But I had done this maybe 5 years ago, so details are fuzzy.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Zundfolge1432]

[DJG66]

[turbotype1]

Isn't the 1200 in a 1960 a 36 horse? I haven't been aware of a kit to convert a 36 horse based case to a 1600.
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[mukluk]

Yep, a stock 1960 Bug's 1200 would be a 36 horse. The 40 horse 1200 wasn't a stock engine in a Beetle until the 1961 model.
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[DJG66]

[Sharp64]

If someone is losing fillings after lowering their bug they’re doing it wrong.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
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[Zundfolge1432]

[Zundfolge1432]

[Sharp64]

[herbie1200]

1200 engines are very rare, I think they should be preserved.

Follow the hints above to take a stock 1600 engine and keep (or rebuild or, if you don't have space to keep, sell) the original 1200.

Look at VW shops: 1200 cylinders/Piston/Head set cost twice the value of 1600 parts.

The same for intake manifold.

Plus a 1200 with all its original parts has an intrinsic value, today and especially in the future.

[karl h]

a 60 has the early style sheet metal at the front of the engine bay. if you want to stuff a motor with heaterboxes into it, you have to modify it. just FYI
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[Zundfolge1432]

[turbotype1]