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jrbuzz8 Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2018 Posts: 47 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:32 am Post subject: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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A while back, I purchased a 1974 Super Beetle that had sat in a barn for a long time. I got a great deal on it, so I couldn’t turn it down. Turns out, it hasn’t been driven since 2002, when it was being used as a daily driver and then the owner at the time tore apart the dash board to try to install a new speaker system. It was never finished, and so I’m left with a mess of wires. First, though, I decided to get it running. I’ve got most of the wires in the correct spots (all of them for starting the car), but I can only get it to turn over and not fire. I’ve replaced the spark plugs, wires, fuel pump, and rebuilt the carburetor, but still no luck getting it to fire. Should I replace the distributor, as well? It also won’t turn over using the key in the ignition, and has to be “hot wired” to turn over. Is the ignition switch bad? All fuses are new and good. What is my next step? Thanks! |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8699 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Use your multi meter or test light to verify power at the coil with with the key in the run position. If it has power at the coil and no spark, I would probably replace the points, condensor, cap and rotor and see what happens.
If no power at the coil you should probably start testing at the ignition switch to see where the fault is. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Good that you have rebuilt the carburetor, hopefully you cleaned it at least two times, can take three to get out all the gunk in them from sitting so long. Probably good you replaced the fuel pump, but many of the new pumps made today put out way too much fuel pressure, that can flood the engine. Getting a stock VW pump made in Germany and rebuilding it is a better option.
New distributors are for most part are junk. Stock distributors are much better quality and there are folks that will rebuild them due to this. More likely the points in the distributor need a quick sanding to remove corrosion that is keeping them from conducting electricity. Either pull out the points or pull out the distributor with the clamp still on it. Then use a bit of sandpaper folded over to clean up the points. If you pull the distributor out hold it upside down while sanding the points to keep the paper grit from dropping down into the distributor workings. With the clamp still on the distributor, the distributor will go back right where it was before. Will just need to rotate the rotor shaft to line up with the dist drive shaft in the engine to get them back together when you install the distributor.
Got to stop replacing parts willy nilly and need to learn to diagnose what is really wrong. As already posted, first check if you have voltage. Always check the easiest to test possibilities first.
As for is the ignition switch good or bad, you need to double check wiring, then check the switch with the multimeter. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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jrbuzz8 wrote: |
A while back, I purchased a 1974 Super Beetle that had sat in a barn for a long time. I got a great deal on it, so I couldn’t turn it down. Turns out, it hasn’t been driven since 2002, when it was being used as a daily driver and then the owner at the time tore apart the dash board to try to install a new speaker system. It was never finished, and so I’m left with a mess of wires. First, though, I decided to get it running. I’ve got most of the wires in the correct spots (all of them for starting the car), but I can only get it to turn over and not fire. I’ve replaced the spark plugs, wires, fuel pump, and rebuilt the carburetor, but still no luck getting it to fire. Should I replace the distributor, as well? It also won’t turn over using the key in the ignition, and has to be “hot wired” to turn over. Is the ignition switch bad? All fuses are new and good. What is my next step? Thanks! |
Assuming it was running before all of this stuff in 2002 then I would think it's something above that is the problem.
1. Starting with sitting. What happens is the fuel tank and gas lines and fuel pump and carb get messed up as well as spark plugs need changing. How was the oil hopefully no water in it? If so just as well rebuild. Did you adjust the valves? Try pulling it with a rope? Getting the engine turning good in second gear?
2. With wiring being messed up next check for voltage at the coil (12 volts DC) when the key is on. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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see if your getting a spark. have helper crank the motor while while you hold one sparkplug wire removed from plug about half inch from motor block. a strong blue spark should jump that gap to the engine case. if no spark jumps, then you have an ignition problem
you also should smell unburnt gasoline from the tail pipe immediately after extensive cranking if the motor wont start if no gasoline smell, then you probably have a fuel deliver problem. _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Tom K. Samba Member
Joined: March 10, 2005 Posts: 1603 Location: Central Pennsylvania
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Got to stop replacing parts willy nilly and need to learn to diagnose what is really wrong. |
Yes, please slow down and find out what is wrong before spending any more money. 2002 is not that long ago, and most of the parts on you VW will still work perfectly with a little cleaning. One exception is the braking system - a few small seals are the difference between stopping and not. Check your brakes before your drive and, yes, go ahead and purchase some parts here.
Find a book by John Muir called "How to Keep Your VW Alive." In that book , he has a nice step by step process to follow if your engine does not start. _________________ '91 Vanagon Westfalia
'70 Beetle Convertible
'71 Super Beetle Semi-Automatic: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=714131&highlight=
'65 Ghia: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=762478&highlight= |
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empi3 Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2015 Posts: 347 Location: SW Wyoming
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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jrbuzz8 wrote: |
Should I replace the distributor, as well? It also won’t turn over using the key in the ignition and has to be “hot wired” to turn over. Is the ignition switch bad? All fuses are new and good. What is my next step? Thanks! |
Well if you had a distributor handy, Is it one of those with a pointless module?
The thing about distributors is different distributors wire plug wise differently. If it's .009 #1 is at 4: Oclock, if it's the Original 34 #1, is rotated 90' CCW at about 2: Oclock.
Actually, there are no fuses in the crank or voltage to the coil circuits. It's pretty common to have a starter that won't crank with the key but when jumpered it cranks. If the little wire to the starter gets 's at least 10 Volts DC when trying to crank it with the key then the wiring to the key etc is good and the problem is just the solenoid on the starter. They are pretty easy to work but yeah probably get it running before worrying about that. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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jrbuzz8 Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2018 Posts: 47 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Awesome thanks a ton! I’m a college student in Chicago, and this is my first Beetle that I’ve owned. Being at school makes it difficult to work on the car as fast as I’d like to. I’ll check out/test to see the distributor is working properly. I know that just replacing parts left and right won’t normally fix anything, but the things I replaced needed to be replaced anyway, so I figured it was best to start there. One thing I notice is that I still seem to be having a fuel delivery problem to the carburetor from the fuel pump. I installed an additional filter in the line going from the pump to the carburetor, and I can see there’s fuel in there, but I never see any fuel being moved into the intake. I can positively say that everything is clean and clear in the carburetor, as well.
So, next I’ll check the distributor, then the carburetor again, then I’ll look at the ignition switch. I also know that you have to have the seatbelt buckled to engage the ignition switch. Could the wiring for that not be connected properly, making the ignition useless? |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31360 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:09 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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jrbuzz8 wrote: |
I also know that you have to have the seatbelt buckled to engage the ignition switch. Could the wiring for that not be connected properly, making the ignition useless? |
Yes, just on 1974. Unless someone monkeyed with it. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Carburetor has many tiny passages that can be clogged up with dirt, debris, fuel varnish, corrosion. Even if it looks clean in the places you can see into easily.
You are not going to see fuel flow unless it is at least liters (quarts) per few minutes. Probably the fuel pump needs to be primed. Remove the fuel line at the pump that goes from pump to carb. Cut a plastic fuel filter into a fuel proof funnel. Use this funnel to pour fuel into the carb. When the float chamber is full the float inside should shut off you being able to pour any more fuel into it, but if the float or valve has failed the fuel will start dripping down the throat of the carb.
Once you have fuel in the carb, have spark, and can get the starter to engage, you should be able to get the engine to fire. With the fuel in the carb the engine at idle will get the fuel pump working due to the engine running, pumping the pump thousands of times a minute.
Hopefully you got the correct replacement fuel pump. There are two types that each require a different length of push rod. Use the wrong pump0 with wrong length of rod and it can just not function or destroy the pump. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available!
Last edited by Eric&Barb on Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dirtkeeper Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2008 Posts: 3200 Location: Left of everywhere
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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i assume that you have clean fresh gas in the tank. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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clean the points too. |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4023 Location: WA
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Remove the fuel line from the pump that comes from the tank and blow in it until you can tell it's bubbling in the tank to see if the rubber lines have swollen closed, those german rubber hoses look good on the outside but they swell closed on the inside (same thing happens to the rubber brake hoses if you notice the brakes are dragging). Buy a can of starting spray from your local FLAPS and spray down the carb and try to start it, if it runs for a few seconds, its a fuel problem. If your carb has the anti run on solenoid on the carb make sure you hear a "click" when power is at the coil or it won't idle. |
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mark tucker Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009 Posts: 23937 Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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yup that silynoid on the carbs do cause headaches if your not used to them. |
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jrbuzz8 Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2018 Posts: 47 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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All clean gas in the tank, and in the lines. It clearly makes it all the way to the carburetor, which is sitting with a completely empty bowl, and I would think that would make a difference. Those solenoids are the worst, my sister’s 1982 AMC has one on that carburetor. The front brakes are also basically locked and those wheels are not freely moving, which will probably be another thread if I can’t figure it out on my own lol. I’ll have some time to work on the car over my spring break, so I’ll be on here with results more often, I hope. |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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jrbuzz8 wrote: |
All clean gas in the tank, and in the lines. It clearly makes it all the way to the carburetor, which is sitting with a completely empty bowl, and I would think that would make a difference. Those solenoids are the worst, my sister’s 1982 AMC has one on that carburetor. The front brakes are also basically locked and those wheels are not freely moving, which will probably be another thread if I can’t figure it out on my own lol. I’ll have some time to work on the car over my spring break, so I’ll be on here with results more often, I hope. |
If fuel was making it to the carb the float bowl would be full. Solenoid only stops the flow of fuel to the idle circuit.
Brake shoes are probably rusted to the drums. Use a hammer and long punch thru the inner inspection ports in the brake backing plates to jar the shoes loose. Does not need to be hit very hard with the hammer, just enough to vibrate loose. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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jrbuzz8 Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2018 Posts: 47 Location: Kenosha, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Here’s a quick update and another question. After testing the ignition coil, it was clear it was no good (it read about 4.5 ohms and it should be 2.4 max) so it was replaced. I hoped that was the problem that was causing it not to spark, but a new one didn’t solve that issue, either. The car still doesn’t seem to spark, so it won’t fire. I did test to see if the wires were sending power to the plugs and it doesn’t seem like they are. What else can I look for? It’s turning over, it just won’t fire. |
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Patty B. Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2005 Posts: 2181 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Post a pic! It's always nice to see a new find! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24732 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Barn Find Beetle-Need Help to Get it Running |
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Do you get a spark from the coil when you jumper across the open points? _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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