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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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I have a 36 hp that has a rear main leak. I have replaced 2 times fixing to be 3, i have had flywheel sleeve checked and buffed, and I am using a seal tool to install rear main so i know its even and should be in as far its suppose to be.I can replace and will last between 50-100 miles before its starts dripping. I am at a loss on what to try next? would appreciate any information. |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:42 am Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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Are you installing the paper gasket also? How is the end play?
_________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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How much is it dripping? When you come back the next morning is it the puddle about size of a quarter, silver dollar, paper dollar, etc,? _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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The spot is about size of a softball and starts dripping as soon as i turn off engine. this is a engine i paid to have rebuilt and has app 3000 miles on since i got back the first time and yes i am using a paper gasket under flywheel against crank. |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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i have not checked end play simply because i dont have the tool and its such a recent rebuild but the amount of trouble im having it is looking like i need to possibly |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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are you using any sealer on the paper gasket? I always use Permatex #2 on them. Are you sure it is the seal leaking and not the cam plug or something else behind the flywheel? _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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i am not using any permatex behind flywheel only paper gasket and where the case halves are put together look really good? I know there still could be a leak from there but when i pull apart inside of flywheel behind pressure plate is soaked with oil and clutch disk is soaked with oil? |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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Also Cam Plug looks tight and again the plug and the halves appear to be sealed very well |
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bugheadred Samba Member
Joined: January 23, 2003 Posts: 666
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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are you sure its oil and not a bad out put seal for the tranny trans oil |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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it is oil from engine and not gear oil |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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could it be that i am not pushing my seal in deep enough? i use the seal tool and i push seal in until the tool bottoms out which leaves the seal sticking OUTSIDE the case maybe 1/16 ? i have read many opinions that say this is correct to those who say only flush to those that say recessed 1/16? I go over the seal with a dead blow hammer after tool is removed lightly and seal will not go in any deeper unless im being to gentle. What is yall's opinion or experience? this is stock 1958 36 hp Thanks |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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1958-Beetle wrote: |
The spot is about size of a softball and starts dripping as soon as i turn off engine. this is a engine i paid to have rebuilt and has app 3000 miles on since i got back the first time and yes i am using a paper gasket under flywheel against crank. |
That is too much of an oil leak.
Might just be the drain hole in the case is partly or fully clogged up. Later Brazilian 1500/1600 engine cases have a drain hole at the bottom of the crankshaft bore, instead of up near the 8 O'clock position that is above the inner lip of the seal. Have added in a lower position drain hole in our 1641cc engine, with engine all together, but with the FW off. Just take a 1/8" (3mm) drill bit to make it. Would think same can be done to any 20/25/36 HP engine.
Yes, you need to check the end play. Right now the engine is wearing in, so possible the play could be too much at this point. Three to five thousands is exactly two thousands of an inch. 2/1000 of an inch is same as average thickness of a hair of your average European decedent. Half a hair thickness for someone with Asian genes.
Additionally it could be the sealing surface of the flywheel where the inner lip of the seal rides on is too worn down. There is a replacement surface bushing that the FW needs a little machining to fit onto it. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24670 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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1958-Beetle wrote: |
could it be that i am not pushing my seal in deep enough? i use the seal tool and i push seal in until the tool bottoms out which leaves the seal sticking OUTSIDE the case maybe 1/16 ? i have read many opinions that say this is correct to those who say only flush to those that say recessed 1/16? I go over the seal with a dead blow hammer after tool is removed lightly and seal will not go in any deeper unless im being to gentle. What is yall's opinion or experience? this is stock 1958 36 hp Thanks |
Could be. Next time with the seal out measure the bore depth. Then measure the seal in the same dimension. You wan the seal to be down all the way in the bore.
Might also try lightly polishing the bore the seal fits into. Light corrosion of the case can cause sealing problem there. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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I will check end play, i will order the tool. I will also check the drain hole, i have noticed mine at 8:00 position to see if clogged. Thank you for your advice |
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60ragtop Bonneville Belt Bitch
Joined: March 13, 2006 Posts: 7800 Location: Big Wonderful WYO 82401
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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the seal will protrude a little on a 36 motor even when it is set in all the way. Where are you getting the seals? I have better luck using seals sourced for a 356.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/5839/POR_5839_ENGMAN_pg1.htm#item2 _________________ Rick
Certified Mechanic by the State of Michigan in 1977
ASA certified in 1987
Certified Hunter Wheel Alignment Master Technician 1986
tasb wrote: |
I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.
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sb001 wrote: |
maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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i will measure the bore depth and make sure im driving in seal to the stop |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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i have only used 36 hp vw seals some german some off brand. I have been told to try a 356 seal and actually tried one but ruined the seal on install (case is extremely tight) and used german. I was told the 356 seal hits the flywheel seal in a slightly different position? |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33879 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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I've always driven them in just below flush, so you may be onto something.
And do check the endplay as well, nobody's perfect and this could be a cause.
While you are in there, not related, but a good idea to check the gland nut needle bearing for lube.
How are you torquing the flywheel on? |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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i am using a flywheel lock and torquing to 220-230 foot pounds with permatex red |
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1958-Beetle Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2017 Posts: 13 Location: Alabama
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Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: 36 hp with crankshaft seal leak |
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i am using a breaker bar to torque and then a torque wrench to finish..all by hand no air tools |
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