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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4343
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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 Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:14 pm Post subject: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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| I hear the metal composition of factory cylinders was better than what we have today. I want a set of used cylinders so I can hone them for 86mm pistons. Does anyone know how to distinguish a set from everything else? Any markings? |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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| Old cylinders have five full fins. |
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bugguy1967
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2008
Posts: 4343
Location: Los Angeles, CA 90016
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| Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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| Thanks. I just got a reply from someone about a set. Factory ones have a stamp and part number cast into the bases. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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I doubt the oe were any better material  |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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| mark tucker wrote: |
| I doubt the oe were any better material |
Actually they were. Its a different grade of cast iron. Different crystallization.....different amount of graphite etc.
There were a few people looking into this about 10-15 years or so back when the first sets of AA and some others were coming out......and machine work was great....but normal heating would cause stresses that drove them to be out of round and tapered.....and made getting proper surface with honing difficult. There was lots of conversation about this a while back on STF and in the Porsche circles.
There was also lots ofooking at Deutz cylinders for their superb iron.....snd finding some variation out of Brazi in the late 90s and early 00's
So yes.....there are differences.....but how to tell.....not sure. I do know the Brazilian Cofap and Cima/Mahles up through about 1997 were as good as anything that came before. Rqy |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26790
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
So yes.....there are differences.....but how to tell.....not sure. I do know the Brazilian Cofap and Cima/Mahles up through about 1997 were as good as anything that came before. Rqy |
I agree. Just as good if not better than OLD KS cylinders, slightly harder I think. |
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vwinnovator
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005
Posts: 1555
Location: Still doing it in the back of your VW
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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I agree as well...
so I started keeping used OG sets when the crap mahle an aa started coming out...
there will be a use / demand for them some day... |
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Clatter
Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003
Posts: 7551
Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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OG Type 4 cylinders have a part number cast in near the base, along the flat area where they clear the adjacent cylinder.
They have been the hot ticket for years,
Because you can bore the stock 94 up to 96 and fit bigger pistons.
Hard to believe it's coming to this with type 1 P&L!
Actually, I'll bet you that it's been just as bad for the type 1s,
For just as long,
It's just that people don't look as closely at the things.
The last set of AA cylinders i just got done measuring had over a thou and a half taper from top to bottom.
The pistons varied in size by over .002".
Some of the pistons were even an interference fit to the cylinder.
They SUCK, but we have no choice, and many seem to love them,
So there you go..
_________________
Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: How To Tell Genuine Cylinders Apart From All Else |
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But....and forgot to mention....and this is strictly going from memory....there were a couple of people here in in Europe doing metallurgical testing if cast iron cylinders over 10 years ago. I thought some were Jake and Charles Navarro....but don't quote me on that......and there was conversation IIRC....that the reason the AA'S had improved enough to be viable is because their alloy had improved and was more similar to stock.
And....I have been RANTING FOR YEARS......for people to quit throwing away decent high quality cylinder....AND pistons whose skirts and lands were still in spec.
I was having trouble getting not only correct domed pistons for my 1.7l builds.....but good quality ones.....almost 18 years ago in 2000. I have a couple of wood crates of carefully stored first generation 1.7L cylinders.....about 4 sets. They are straighter than some new sets from the past 10 years.
CONSERVE OR SUFFER......
Ray |
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