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IOSilver
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

FYI: Here is the procedure I was planning to use to change the fuel injector hoses:
https://www.vanagon.org/fuel-line-replacement/

It recommends I add hose clamps to both ends of each injector hose as a precautionary measure. Is that not a good idea?

It also says to cut the rubber injector seals, but obviously I won't do that if they look alright & can be reused.

Thanks for your input
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

IOSilver wrote:
FYI: Here is the procedure I was planning to use to change the fuel injector hoses:
https://www.vanagon.org/fuel-line-replacement/

It recommends I add hose clamps to both ends of each injector hose as a precautionary measure. Is that not a good idea?

It also says to cut the rubber injector seals, but obviously I won't do that if they look alright & can be reused.

Thanks for your input


I would add the clamps. VW in general sized their hoses small so they fit very tight in the fittings and these particular hoses were pretty fat on the OD as well. Often your replacement hose may be a much looser fit and thus requires a clamp.

Van Cafe will sell you the 4 small and 4 large injector seals for a total of $6 IIRC. If yours have not been replaced recently and have gotten hard and cracked from age they should be replace, the cost is trivial.

Neat having all the good how-to info available online these days. When I first did this job a couple of decades back I felt I was working pretty blind. Just finding a source of FI hose was daunting at the time.


Last edited by Wildthings on Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IOSilver
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Thanks for the info on the seals -I did find them in stock on VanCafe
& advice on the clamps!

I'm still debating whether or not to send injectors out to be rebuilt or just reinstall them as is with new hoses/seals/clamps (there seems to be a consensus for both)

The fact that my mechanic refused to replace the injector hoses unless I buy 4 new injectors with hoses already attached & said "I guarantee the injectors will leak afterwards if I touch them, they're working just fine now" has me worried. Those hoses look pretty shot to me so I'm not sure what to do..

I liked the "send them to be rebuilt if the tips look melted" because that's something I can understand. I know what melted looks like, lol

Thx for any input you'd care to share about my latest dilemma..
(& sorry for taxing you guys out so much.. I hope to be nearing completion on all this soon Confused
Cyndi


Last edited by IOSilver on Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

If I was in your shoes, or in mine for that matter, in this situation I would send out those injectors to be rebuilt (assuming you have the time). It is not that expensive and new injectors are not really necessary.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Quote:
Well I took the Westy into Siegfried's & they performed diagnostics which included another compression test.
This time the results came out a lot better:
NR1-127
NR2-132
NR3-125
NR4-130


It could be this engine was rebuilt using a Cofap P&C set which will produce low compression numbers as they do not reach proper OE deck. Compression numbers are useless unless you have a baseline. A proper mechanic would perform a Leak down test to accurately determine the health of the top end (except valve guides). If Leak down is good it really doesn't matter what the compression numbers are.

J
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IOSilver
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Thanks Dave,

Per your advice, I'm sending the injectors to be rebuilt..
(I was hoping someone could help me decide because I'm getting stressed & REALLY in need of a camping trip, lol

New tires are happening tomorrow & then I can park the Westy for however long it takes me to finish the fuel lines/firewall adapter. By then, the weather will be perfect & off I go!

Thanks much, Cyndi
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IOSilver
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Sheesh,
Looks like in order to remove the right side injectors to be sent for rebuilding, I 1st have to remove the air filter so I can get to them. The fuel line replacement instructions I have do not cover how to do this.

How hard is it to remove the air filter? Where can I find instructions?
I have a Bentley manual, Holy cow, you'd think I could find removal instructions in there but I don't see anything besides a diagram of the air filter.
Am I even looking in the right section of the manual? Not sure..
I searched the forums, google to no avail.
Looking at my Westy, it appears I need to disconnect at least 2 hoses to get it off. I didn't want to experiment without having some idea 1st.

(This is the problem with women like me, who have almost no mechanical knowhow trying to do mechanical work.
Should I even be trying? I may be willing, but am I able? lol

My other option is to buy replacement injectors from GoWesty or VanCafe, take them to my mechanic & have him do it (lots more expensive, but if I'm too stupid to be attempting this myself, might be the best option for me & the Westy.

What say the gurus? Can you point this lost girl to what is probably glaringly obvious to you & right in front of me someplace? Rolling Eyes
I'm ashamed for asking (almost, lol)
Thanks in advance..
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

No shame in asking.

The air filter is not hard to remove but I cannot walk you thru the steps since I only have my subaru engine conversion to look at currently. Someone here should chime in soon to help.

Have no fear. This is not rocket science and we love to help those that want to learn.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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16CVs Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

You will need either a Straight or Phillips screwdriver to remove the rubber boot from housing (Normally a Straight) , you remove the plug from the AFM which you push the clip in and slide. There is Gold colored clip at the top that secures it to the body, once those are undone you just wiggle it out.
I think your throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Your van runs fine, correct? Keep your eye on the prize here. Change $5.00 worth of Fuel line and go on with your life.
I have a Slighty rusty 91 Westy with 149K on the clock. It runs well, but the fuel lines were hard and dry. I pulled the lines and rails in small sections and cut the new lines the same length and put it back together. Your task is even easier as you only have to replace 4 short pieces of hose. My van runs just as well as it did with th euntouched injectors and original seals. You have to use common sense, if the rubber is still there and pliable then what is to gain with replacing them.
I see people all the time who hand me new window seals everytime they change a window and many times the new replacements are cracking in a matter of months.
While others contend that you should use a clamp next to the bell, I will not say to not do it. But if you look at the pictures of the nipple in proximity to the bell, I don't see how the clamp will grab anything. This a Forum of opinions so you do what you think is best. If you are going to use a clamp then cut the bell off and get some real purchase.
There are times to spend money and times to fix it and move on. While were on the subject of spending money on a Van, when wa the last time you put in a new Windshield? Is it sparkly at night and the wipers don't clear like they used to? How are window seals, do they whistle when you drive? Do all of your dash light work and have you upgraded them to LED yet? In my opinion a way better way to spending money then fixing something that is not broken.

This is my .02 do with it as you please.

Stacyt
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:41 am    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

16CV's wrote:
You will need either a Straight or Phillips screwdriver to remove the rubber boot from housing (Normally a Straight) , you remove the plug from the AFM which you push the clip in and slide. There is Gold colored clip at the top that secures it to the body, once those are undone you just wiggle it out.
I think your throwing the baby out with the bath water here. Your van runs fine, correct? Keep your eye on the prize here. Change $5.00 worth of Fuel line and go on with your life.
I have a Slighty rusty 91 Westy with 149K on the clock. It runs well, but the fuel lines were hard and dry. I pulled the lines and rails in small sections and cut the new lines the same length and put it back together. Your task is even easier as you only have to replace 4 short pieces of hose. My van runs just as well as it did with th euntouched injectors and original seals. You have to use common sense, if the rubber is still there and pliable then what is to gain with replacing them.
I see people all the time who hand me new window seals everytime they change a window and many times the new replacements are cracking in a matter of months.
While others contend that you should use a clamp next to the bell, I will not say to not do it. But if you look at the pictures of the nipple in proximity to the bell, I don't see how the clamp will grab anything. This a Forum of opinions so you do what you think is best. If you are going to use a clamp then cut the bell off and get some real purchase.
There are times to spend money and times to fix it and move on. While were on the subject of spending money on a Van, when wa the last time you put in a new Windshield? Is it sparkly at night and the wipers don't clear like they used to? How are window seals, do they whistle when you drive? Do all of your dash light work and have you upgraded them to LED yet? In my opinion a way better way to spending money then fixing something that is not broken.

This is my .02 do with it as you please.

Stacyt


The injector hoses can feel quite soft and still be cracked. These things are thirty fiveish years old at this point in time and the risk of an aging hose bursting and spraying gas everywhere is unpleasantly high.

Yes remove the collar when change the hose, once the hose is removed a couple of twists with a pair of vise grips will rip the collar apart and it will come off readily.

To the original poster, loosening both band clamps on the S-boot can make dealing with the S-boot easier. Do make sure the S-boot goes back on fully and that you tighten both clamps.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Keep in mind the 30+ year old rubber S boot is also a tad fragile, be nice to it.

Be gentle on those tiny bolts holding the injectors in. A little bit rusty and they can snap. Twist gently, lefty Loosey

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:


Be gentle on those tiny bolts holding the injectors in. A little bit rusty and they can snap. Twist gently, lefty Loosey

Dave


If bolt at each injector hold down bracket looks rusty, start spraying a little penetrating fluid on them now and over next few days. If you can get the spray nozzle behind the bracket, spray a little there too. This is quality stuff:

https://www.amazon.com/Kano-Aerokroil-Penetrating-aerosol-AEROKROIL/dp/B000F09CEA

I usually clean the bolt head with a small metal brush or pic tool then apply fluid. Harbour Freight has pic tool sets with orange handles IIRC.

If using a ratchet and socket, holding the tool by the head while tightening those bolts helps prevent over tightening a fastener. Torque value shown for those bolts is low.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice..
I really appreciate it!

FYI: I'm not throwing anything out!
I feel I'm real close to getting the Westy ready for camping & having peace of mind knowing the tires, brakes & fuel lines are safe.
Breaking down somewhere is really of secondary concern as I have a towing pkg if that occurs. I want to feel safe driving it & know I'm not causing undue damage by driving it.

The great advice I've received on this forum, along with having found a good mechanic to diagnosis & make some much needed repairs on the Westy is making this dream possible. The way I see it, if it can't be driven or camped in then it's just a 7,200K lb. paperweight that requires maintenance lol. I either need to use it for it's intended purpose or else get rid of it. I've heard arguments on both sides.

In better times, this vehicle represents freedom to me.
Other times it's been an albatross around my neck, lol but I expect no less from a 33 yr old relic.
I know it's not going to be new no matter how much $$ I throw at it. It's gonna rust out & fall apart eventually (there's some visible rust on the undercarriage now). If I can baby it & get a few more years use out of it I'll be very happy. I really like camping in it & have been on 10 solo camping trips in it so far.
I also think I'll have better luck selling if it's in decent shape so putting some $$ into it now seems a good idea. If it needed an engine, I'd probably let it go instead..


Anyway, that's my long way of saying I think I'm close to having the BIG issues resolved & am not giving up!...

They ordered the wrong size tires so am straightening that out & waiting for the right ones & having those installed before I disconnect the batteries & complete the fuel lines (& I am loosening those bolts little by little in the interum...)

Your encouragement, advice & continued support has been invaluable to me & I really can't thank you enough! Very Happy
This forum is really awesome.
Cyndi
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

It will never be 100% reliable.

I'm a darn good mechanic though with age I'm beginning to overlook some things I shouldn't. I have gone through my Van replacing everything known to fail. It took me three years of work,
It isn't beautiful (but isn't beat up ugly either) for I didn't focus on paint and bling but it is reliable.

Even at that, I lost a radiator hose, due to my mechanic not fully tightening a clamp Embarassed

I had bolts fall out of a brake caliper. Why? I dom't know the other side is tight, maybe lock tite was overlooked?

I had the Power Steering and A/C belts come off in the wilds of Eastern Oregon last Fall.

I've developed a transmission oil leak but I deal with it until I can make repairs.

This week I have developed a CV click on left turns, that's fixed by just lubing the joints I rebuilt almost four years ago.

I've crossed the Country and back three times in it plus multiple local outings.

I've no fear of a trip being seriously interrupted by mechanical failure, and if it is, I carry a foldable tow bar with me.

Honestly, Most of my problems have been self inflicted and I own that.

As many will laugh at, I also carry a small parts department with me. I used the spare ECU last fall in Montana to cure a hot start engine misfire.

You need to be in "tune" with your unit. Turn off the radio and listen to the machine. You will know when she's ailing.

Also buy the Bentley service manual and carry it in the Van, if you cannot fix it that book will help someone, with the skills and tools needed, to fix it.

Dave.
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IOSilver
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

Also buy the Bentley service manual and carry it in the Van, if you cannot fix it that book will help someone, with the skills and tools needed, to fix it.
Dave.


Thanks Dave Smile
I have the Bentley Manual & it rides with me in the van along with a set of tools, fire extinguisher, tire jack, jumper cables (& 1st aid kit), lol
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

I have some lifelong friends from breaking down or helping those that have. Make lemonade.... Laughing Laughing Laughing

When my son and I went traveling for the summer of 2015 (he has a lot of anxiety) I told him that no matter where we were there were folks that would help if we needed it. That was true!
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MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

You're so right Dave O.
People will go out of their way to help in a crisis.
I will make some lemonade.. Cool

When I was at Siegfried Motors picking up the van, a man walked in & asked me what year the Westy was & we got to chatting. He has 7 older (60's) VW buses he's restoring & showed me pictures. Turns out he's the president of the local chapter of the VW Deutchlanders club. They hold monthly meetings & host caravan road trips, etc.
I expressed my interest & he gave me his phone# & offered to email me a list of their scheduled events.
Pretty cool, huh?

I'm waiting for my new Hankook tires & once I get the Westy home with her new shoes will delve into the injector fuel line & firewall adapter replace..
One of the injector's rubber boots is torn, exposing the wires so I will shop around for a replacement for it too.

Thanks for the air filter removal instructions Stacyt!
They will make this chore much easier.. Surprised

Thanks so much!
Cyndi
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IOSilver
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:22 am    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

Hi all,

I'm about ready to remove the fuel injectors & send them off to Mr Injector to be rebuilt & also replace the plastic firewall adapter on the Westy as recommended, but before I begin I have a safety concern:

The only place I can do this work myself is in my attached garage within 10-15 ft of my gas water heater, which has a pilot light.

Q: Is it safe for me to be removing fuel lines in an enclosed space this close to an ignition source?

I want to perform these fuel line changes to prevent a possible engine fire in the Westy, but not if I'm going to blow my house up in the process, lol Shocked
If it's not safe for me to do it here, I'll try & find a repair shop..

Thx for your advice..
Cyndi
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

The pilot light would be scary to me. I would suggest shutting the pilot off while you are actively working on the vehicle and keeping the garage door open until any spilled fuel has evaporated and the fumes have cleared.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: Compression test results Reply with quote

x2 on open garage door, putting pilot light out. Have fun!
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