Help me build my new front beam

[joseluis17g]

So... I picked up a link pin bean, which are really few left here.
It's the first thing that I buy to build my rail, so I'm quite excited to start the build

I started disassembling everything and started to find some busted stuff, to be expected since the beam is half a century old, old the rubber bushings are busted and some parts are cracked.
I don't know if the car was in a front crashed or it was treated like crap all it's life
But here it is

So as you can see, the shock tower is cracked and the outer portion of the beam is cracked as well.
I was planning on buying aftermarket shock towers, (I did tried to find it but couldn't) but can't decide if I want 8" or 10" is there an advantage on going 10" with stocks trailing arms?

What about the bump stop, should I remove it, and install a limiting strap? I'm worried that it would limit my suspension travel.

what tube should I use to repair the part that is cracked, I saw in here that some guy used "Tubing 2 Inch 0.120 Wall Tubing" is that ok? I don't want to have any trouble fitting the bushings.

While I'm rebuilding the beam, I could go wider, I see people go 6" wider with just one spring plate, my rail is going to be a woods buggy so I don't know if going wide would be an improvement so maybe just a couple of inches to match the rear, I'm using a bus transaxle, suspension and tranny
is it possible to go 2 or 3 inches wider using just one torsion springs, I don't see why not, but better be safe that sorry.
Will doing this make my ride harsh?

I want to have a softer ride, I know I still haven't ridden it yet, but I see a lot of people complaining about a harsh ride, so I was wondering if this would be a good time to take one of the leafs off to have a softer ride

bushings... is it worth going urethane? if so, which ones are the most important.

hopefully that covers all the bases, if I forgot something be sure I'll be bothering you guys soon.
this is a great place I'm trying to learn as fast as I can so I can give back to the samba community.


Thank you all


_________________
86 Mexican baja bug
73 Porsche 911
82 Mercedes UNIMOG
83 Jeep CJ7

[earthquake]

The way that bottom tube is buggered up I would just buy a new beam with the length towers you want, they are not that much. Also those cracks look like metal fatigue to me, that beam is scrap as far as I am concerned, but that's just me.

Casey
_________________
74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
https://time-zonelabs.blogspot.com/p/about-kelly.html
DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison]

[Dale M.]

[Sharp64]

Interesting that they are so hard to find in Mexico.... I have three in my garage and every swap meet I go to usually has stacks of them. I know a place local(ish) that has probably dozens just sitting around.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[Vanillagurilla]

You can buy a new beam with 8 or 10in shock towers for under $300 for the bare beam, then you can get some bushings and use your arms and springs.

[dustymojave]

Vanilla is right, and so are the others. That beam is fatigued to the point it is all now junk. The leaves may still be good. Save the grubb screws and nuts.

I recommend a "Warrior" beam. Stock width, 8" towers. Put on 8" travel shocks with stock arms and leaves. You might have to cut the bump stops off the uprights or trim them to clear the shocks. With 8" shocks and stock lower arms gives you 10" travel and a pretty soft ride without concern of bottoming out. If you put on the shock mount extenders, and 8" shocks, you get 8" travel. If you put the shock mount extensions on the lower arms, then you need 10" towers and 10" travel shocks to get 10" of travel.

With the same torsion leaves, you get a softer ride with 10" of travel than with 8" of travel. Same spring rate, but the arms rotate farther before the stops are contacted.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[Vanillagurilla]

[joseluis17g]

Thank you all for your help

It seems that I'm now looking for a new beam.
International shipping and import taxes make it really expensive for me to buy a whole beam and bring it home.
I'm going to make some calls to see if someone has one, hopefully I'll find one soon.

I'm now wondering if its worth going to 10" vs 8" I'll make a price comparison, if the difference isn't much, I'm going to go with 10" and the shock mount extenders

Thanks again you guys

I'll keep you posted when I find another beam
_________________
86 Mexican baja bug
73 Porsche 911
82 Mercedes UNIMOG
83 Jeep CJ7

[dustymojave]

OK. I understand shipping and import issues.

Can you find another stock kingpin beam? Do you have the ability to fabricate things? Or have a friend or even know a business to fabricate some simple things?

Because it is not difficult to make your own shock towers out of straight tubing with no bending. Just some welding.

You would need a piece of steel tube 1" diameter x .095" wall. In metric sizes that would be 25mm OD x 2.5mm wall. It must be structural tubing, not water or gas pipe. You need 2 pieces about 2' (about 600mm) long for the back of the tower, and 2 pieces a little over 1' (about 325mm) long for the front side of the tower. I'm talking about making a triangle if you view it from the side. The top corner of the triangle would be at the top shock mount. The bottom point of the triangle would be at the back of the bottom of the stock tower. Cut the tower off about 1/2" (13mm) above the top of the top beam torsion tube. Weld a strip of 1/8" steel to cap off the top of the tower where you cut off the stock tower. Cut the end of the front tube at an angle so it leans back at about the same angle as the stock tower. The back tube needs an angle cut and a little notch cut in it to fit over the pinch weld seam on the back of the stock tower. The top end of the 2 tubes will meet at the top of the new tower. At the top you will weld on a piece of tube for the shock mount bolt. Then a 3rd tube will go from under the top of the tower, down at an angle to the top of the beam tube for a brace. The tube for the bolt should be of the correct inside diameter to fit the bolt you use. Stock VW shock bolts are 12mm. The tube should be heavy wall, like 1/8" (3mm).

I have built shock towers like I describe for a customer before and they worked beautifully. But I have no pictures of them.

Here is a picture of the towers on my Baja Bug.

What I describe above, the back tube goes from the shock mount down to the back of the stock tower instead of back to the frame.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[joseluis17g]

I found another beam! I'm going to go get it on the weekend, I'll keep you guys posted

[Vanillagurilla]

I'm trying to put together a beam setup as well. From what I have been able to come up with is to use a 10" tower and you can use 8in shocks with extentions. Problem with that is finding 8in travel coil overs is hit and miss and most times they are more expensive then 10in shocks. Also most of the 8in shocks I have found are for trucks so the valving and spring rate is way off, by the time you change all that on used shocks your at about the same cost as new 10in shocks.

[cbeck]

2.25 x 1 arms w/8 " shocks. With slightly more for shocks, you can rebuild, change valving, change oil viscosity, and play with nitrogen pressure.
http://eshocks.com/bil_ORgd.asp?Manf=All
http://eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=Q7&Length_Index=1Q6&Manf=All&SubChar=Q
http://eshocks.com/bil_ORvh.asp?Series_Index=Q7&Length_Index=0Q6&Manf=All&SubChar=Q

_________________
My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[dustymojave]

And those are "8inch" towers, right Chris? (12 " from top of upper beam tube to center of upper shock mount bolt).

Issues with importing parts such as beams into Mexico where the OP lives have already been discussed here. So importing coilover shocks and longer trailing arms seems to be a problem for him.

You guys are sure good at spending Jose's money.

I have some other views of that front suspension from different angles. But that picture tells you pretty much ALL that you need to make one like it out of tubing or plate. The beam you see on my HiJumper race buggy in my avatar has similar upper shock mount location with 8" towers made of plate. Those were flame cut, not CNC. Same net effect whether flame cut plate, CNC cut plate, or tubing.. I chose the exact shock mount location by cycling the suspension without torsion leaves installed, but with shocks installed. Those tube towers on my Baja Bug put the mounts a little farther back than common 8" plate towers.

you could make 8" towers or 10" towers or even 14" towers like used on some 5-1600 race Baja Bugs.

You can make plate towers that fit against the outboard face of the stock towers. Or plate towers that replace the stock towers entirely like a Warrior beam, or that mount with bolts to the original towers like my tubular towers. Or that get welded to the stock towers in a similar fashion. Many options.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[joseluis17g]

[cbeck]

yes, 12" from the top of the top tube to the center of the upper shock bolt.
_________________
My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779

[dustymojave]

So you have "8 inch towers" Chris.

Jose Luis, You do quite well writing in English. Si necesite algo de ayuda con Ingles, contactame con un mensaje privado.

"expensive" is correct.

"looks a bit wire were it connects" I suppose you meant to say, it "looks a bit weird where it connects".

That lower right trailing arm is missing the grease seal. Before you take the beam all apart, check the movement of the arms in the beam tubes. If any of the arms wobble in the beam tube, then the roller bearings need to be replaced. Here in the US, it is difficult to find the original trailing arm roller bearings. It is easier to replace with urethane or Delrin (nylon) bushings which will also replace the grease seals. You can buy urethane grease seals, or buy short urethane bushings that replace the grease seals and the outer roller bearings, or you can buy long urethane or Delrin bushings that also replace the inner micarta bushings.

If the original bearings are OK, then I recommend leaving them there and just replacing the grease seals. Bushings are not better than the original bearings.

You can still use the stock shock towers and lower shock mounts and still get pretty good wheel travel if you trim off the ends of the stock travel stops. I did that on my Baja and you can see that a little in the picture above.

I modified the stock snubbers by "cycling" the suspension without torsion leaves inside the tubes. I trimmed the ends of the stock snubbers with a hand held grinder until the spindles would start changing caster if it were allowed to droop any farther. Then I ground off 1/4" (6mm) more and welded on a piece of plate that thick to bring it back to where I wanted the suspension to stop. Then I installed the shock and marked the location of the top end of the shock on the inner fender panel. (that won't work if you have cut the inner fender panels back farther, so you would have to use some other way to mark the location). Then I compressed the shock and rotated the arm up to where the end of the shock is at the same place as extended at full droop. I had to grind the end of the stop to rotate the arm there. Once I had that location, I ground another 1/4" off the end of the stop and added a piece of plate to bring it back to where the shock was at the same location.

I left a little shock travel at the top and at the bottom so the arms stop before the shock hits the end of its travel.

You can do pretty much the same thing with stock shock towers.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.