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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:05 pm Post subject: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Folks:
I have new clutch cable, new bowden tube (bent down 1-1.5 inches, new throw out bearing, clutch plate with 5000 miles, pressure plate unknown miles or date.
I pulled the motor to address a tranny issue. Now that its all bolted back up, the pedal pushes real soft to the floor like its not grabbing anything and barely rises back up. While an assistant pumped the clutch pedal, I observed the lever on the tranny travel about normal distance corresponding to the clutch pedal. Yet very soft as if it was not moving anything at all inside the bell housing. Just the lever moved as normal
The tranny issue started when shifting into first or second became more and more difficult and then stuck in reverse eventually. I evidently shoved the stick shift so hard that the hockey stick arm popped off and had to be popped back onto the correct spot in the nose cone. There was also a shift coupler with about 5000 miles on it and I was going to change it for good measure anyway.
So now im sitting the the driveway and the clutch wont engage enough to shift gears with the clutch pedal to the floor. its adjusted to a inch below top.
The pressure plate looked fine with no broken teeth, but perhaps its was worn out and I could not see it with my eye while I had the motor out.
Could the pressure plate be worn out and thats why all this mess started? Anything stuck in there? Other ideas?
Please advise.
Brad |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51118 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Won't engage?, or won't disengage? When you say "1" from the top" is that freeplay until it gets hard to push with one finger? How does it shift with the engine off?, if you put it in gear and try starting it while holding the clutch pedal down what happens? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні! |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Won't engage?, or won't disengage? When you say "1" from the top" is that freeplay until it gets hard to push with one finger? How does it shift with the engine off?, if you put it in gear and try starting it while holding the clutch pedal down what happens? |
Thanks for the reply.
Won't disengage technically speaking. Pressing the clutch pedl down to the floor does nothing but move the lever on the tranny.
Free play from the top one inch as instructed. push with a finger.
Does not shift with engine off or on.
If I try to start the engine with a foot on the pedal or off makes no difference. I usually start in neutral for fear of jumping it off the jackstands. I will lower it and try to start it in gear.
Thanks for the considerations |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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busdaddy wrote: |
Won't engage?, or won't disengage? When you say "1" from the top" is that freeplay until it gets hard to push with one finger? How does it shift with the engine off?, if you put it in gear and try starting it while holding the clutch pedal down what happens? |
When starting the engine in gear with or without depressing the clutch the bus jumps. |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2198 Location: seattle
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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when I ran a '74 bus, I recall there are at least two different lengths of
cable for clutch cables, I'd start there, then I would question/ maybe
dismantle the housing to see if the T/O bearing is properly located.
There should also be a washer stack providing the 'sag' in the bowden
cable. |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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timvw7476 wrote: |
when I ran a '74 bus, I recall there are at least two different lengths of
cable for clutch cables, I'd start there, then I would question/ maybe
dismantle the housing to see if the T/O bearing is properly located.
There should also be a washer stack providing the 'sag' in the bowden
cable. |
Thanks. Cable is good, three washers on the Bowden tube. Adjustment is fine and the lever arm travels fine. I can move the lever with a couple fingers. Could I press the resistance weight of the pressure plate with a couple fingers if everything was working fine? |
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timvw7476 Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013 Posts: 2198 Location: seattle
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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usually requires whole palm to press the pedal against the pressure plate.
is it possible your new cable is already fraying? that would explain what you've
got there. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16954 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Face it Brad. Pull the engine again and check the clutch plate. Also, could something have happened regarding the Subaru adapter? I assume it uses one. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Here's what we got inside:
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16954 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:26 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Nothing apparent. Have you removed the plate from the flywheel? _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:21 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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aeromech wrote: |
Nothing apparent. Have you removed the plate from the flywheel? |
Notchet. That's my job today. I wonder If the TO bearing is too short. It has wear on its fave you can see its rubbed out the name and part numbers. Its new from carquest. Ill have to compare them. I pushed on the teeth of the plate and they seem hard as hell but I don't know. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16954 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:02 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Occasionally that fork that the T/O bearing mounts to can fail _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Hee are some picts of the pressure plate and the disc. How bad are the cracks? The scoring? How do those springs look?3
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16954 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Pretty bad. Buy yourself a Sachs clutch kit. Question is why did this happen after 2500 miles? You could also get a KEP clutch because of your HP. Ask Skills what he suggests. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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aeromech wrote: |
Pretty bad. Buy yourself a Sachs clutch kit. Question is why did this happen after 2500 miles? You could also get a KEP clutch because of your HP. Ask Skills what he suggests. |
I have no idea about the history of that pressure plate. It came from the PO who surely rode the piss out of it. He's got videos online of him jumping his Baja bug on city streets. So there's that. I bought the clutch plate from vparts in national city 5000 miles ago. The T/O is from carquest a couple weeks ago. |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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aeromech wrote: |
Pretty bad. Buy yourself a Sachs clutch kit. Question is why did this happen after 2500 miles? You could also get a KEP clutch because of your HP. Ask Skills what he suggests. |
I have no idea about the history of that pressure plate. It came from the PO who surely rode the piss out of it. He's got videos online of him jumping his Baja bug on city streets. So there's that. I bought the clutch plate from vparts in national city 5000 miles ago. The T/O is from carquest a couple weeks ago. |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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I'm starting to think that the lever arm is just not getting enough travel to engage. I've got the cable adjusted with the pedal at the top with no inch play as ive seen recommened. So perhaps the t/o is simply not getting pulled far enough out to push on the fingers. Even this crappy plate could theoretically work with enough pressure on it? I'm replacing it, btw. I just want to know if its kosher to adjust the cable differently to compensate for the lack of lever travel when the pedal is depressed. |
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Gumboguy Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2010 Posts: 63 Location: New Orleans
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Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:54 am Post subject: Re: 1974 Bay Westie clutch wont engage |
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Update:
All is well. New stage 2 Kennedy pressure plate, TO bearing, bowden tube, clutch cable, clovis pin, shifter bushings. My gut tells me the biggest offender was the pressure plate. It is 3 mm shorter than the new one at the spring fingers and definitely softer to the touch. Not to mention how ground up it was at the rotor.
Thanks for all the suggestions! |
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