AT transmission shifting weirdness

[blackglasspirate]

[MarkWard]

Good Morning. Sorry that you still have problems. It should not be this problematic. Before you pull it again, you need to do some pressure checks. That is the proper way to diagnose an automatic. This applies to all automatics. In most cases, what you've done improves the transmission service. Manually shifting an automatic is getting you down the road, but is bypassing the design. Possibly disguising the problem. Read through the section on how to test pressure. It could point you to the actual problem.

I had a customer's vanagon that I removed a few times for a leakiest torque converter seal. I did everything without success. Using die, it turned out to be a hairline crack in the cast iron bell housing. Not a crack, more of a casting flaw. A good used case solved it. Kicked my butt.

You may have an interal problem unrelated to the seals and frictions. I hope you are also taking my advice of bypassing the cooler with a very short loop. Once you have it working properly, then add your cooler back. Best of luck. Mark
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[blackglasspirate]

A quick update, though not much to say.
I jumped the gun on driving to Santiago. The guy said he could work on it and to call Monday, so I started the drive to be close and within range to be there whenever. Unfortunately when I called he said he can't see it until end of next week, so now I'll be floating around the Santiago area for a while. Thought about going back to Argentina in order to renew my Chilean visa, but the pass here is at about 13,500ft so I don't want to put the trans through the struggle without knowing what's up.

I agree that I need to do a pressure test. I was planning on having the shop do that but now that it's going to be another 1.5 weeks I might try to see if I can find a reasonably priced gauge and do it myself. The gauge I currently have doesn't go high enough for the pressures the transmission sees.

For the cooler - I honestly forgot about that when putting it back in and then was too afraid to do this longer drive without it. I might just try clamping the lines to/from it and seeing what happens.
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[MarkWard]

I dropped it a few posts back, but I would not dead head the cooler lines. I would do a small loop. I'm still not sure the cooler is plumbed to a bypass with some sort of relief valve and back harmlessly to the pan, but I don't know enough to argue it on the internet.
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[Butcher]

+1, do not clamp the lines. If you think you got problems now, do it and see what other problems happen.

[blackglasspirate]

Roger that. Mark, I remember you mentioning it, it just slipped my mind in the frenzy of getting it all back together.

One small development. The initial delayed upshift from 1st to 2nd I had when cold has started happening on the 2nd-3rd upshift as well. Just the first shift of the day.
It's interesting the different things you start noticing when you're driving in different places and have different driving conditions. I didn't notice that when we were in Osorno because it was mostly around town for the first few minutes at least. Since we came up towards Santiago we've been sleeping at rest areas, so as soon as we start going it's flooring it to merge onto the interstate.


Anyway, I think I topped up the ATF a little too much so today I might drain/refill and check for any metal particles in the oil. I also am considering dropping the valve body to check that the brake band and piston are seated correctly. Kourt posted some pictures on another thread about proper seating of the band and I'm wondering if maybe it's not in there right.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20

Worth a look anyway, especially since I've got a while to wait until the shop can look at it.
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[Butcher]

[danfromsyr]

my take on the governor is from other's having issues..
if I hear something once, it's M-ok.. interesting.
but there are several posts over the years with a similar issue/reason.. I'd linked one such thread jut after my post you'd quoted.. I usually try to get all info in/on a post.. but must have been hurried at the time.

besides the risk isn't worth the minor reward of 'coasting savings'
besides in most US states it's actually illegal to disengage the drive line on a downhill. but you'll probably want empirical evidence to that as well.. maybe I'll dig that up later..
here's Cali for ya http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=21710.&lawCode=VEH
LMGTFY: https://www.google.com/search?q=eillegal+to+coast+...t+downhill

here's a 2nd one https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5134527
seems I've changed gears on this myself since 2011.. like i'd said here it once.. Hmm.. hear it twice.. HMMMM

[kourt]

[danfromsyr]

OK back to Blackglass's latest post..
In researching on vanagon governor issues/failures. I came across this tidbit, that may be worth investigating. as the governor is (usually) easy to pop out

some reading on Dave's AT thread
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661625

[Butcher]

Kourt, Thanks for the explanation, I never thought of someone shutting off the engine and certainly that could cause the shaft to break.

At idle, the pressure should be around 3.2 bar and full throttle about double that. I just could not understand how the shaft could seize with 45 psi of oil [minimum].

[danfromsyr]

but how much pressure does the pump make at idle speeds?
and is it sufficient for the governor shaft while it's spinning at higher (downhill) highway speeds?
the shaft is only bushed it's not on a bearing. and while ATF is slippery, it's not a viscous lubricant.

still not worth the risk IMO.. I'll just preach caution, maybe not gospel.
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[blackglasspirate]

Little update:

I dropped the pan/valve body and confirmed the brake band was seated right. Guess I was scare so for no reason! Unfortunately I noticed some sparkle in the oil still and when I pulled the filter you can see some junk. Some of it was fibrous, probably lint from me drying a few things with a rag (I know, I know). The metal that's in there could be gunk that didn't get flushed out of the TC when we cleaned it. Or, it could be new stuff from inside the TC. No way to know right now so I'll just keep puttering around in the meantime and see what happens.

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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[blackglasspirate]

Today the mechanic said he can't look at it until next Wednesday (Mon/Tues everything is closed for a holiday).

But the good news is I had some interesting Saturday evening entertainment and got to use my transmission problems as an excuse (among many others) not to use my vehicle as a tow truck after a very drunk/high guy attempted to drive across a river with his friends.
I did lend my tow strap so at least it finally got put to use!

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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[danfromsyr]

ok lets hear it..
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[blackglasspirate]

Sorry for the late reply. I just (5 minutes ago) got the call back from the mechanic to come by today at 4 so he can have a look at it. This whole time we've just been waiting around for his call. Hopefully I'll have more (good) news soon!
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[blackglasspirate]

Well, in true Latin American style, the mechanic called me back on Wednesday and said to not come until Friday. So I went this morning and convinced him to start the work on Monday morning.

Of course, when I brought it to him the transmission was behaving, more or less. It was warmed up so the delayed shifting in 1st and 2nd was happening, and then the slip/flare between 2nd and 3rd was minimal. However, after talking it over some more he thinks it's the torque converter. On the parts diagram for the converter he showed me two parts that he suspected could be the problem. They can rebuild the torque converter and are also going to take a look inside the automatic section as well to make sure everything is good there. He estimated $1,000 for the work (parts not included) and 4-5 days. As long as he can get it running right again, that's all fine by me.

In contrast to the rebuilder in Osorno, this guy's workshop is pristine. Really clean, organized, and professional so I have a good feeling.

He also thought that I had a problem with the engine, like it wasn't firing right on all cylinders. That was based on the non-quite steady idle, vibration, and also observing the exhaust. Who knows, I might have that too, but the somewhat rough running has been there for years, even with my new Vanistan engine, so I don't think that is having an effect on this problem.

Anyway, we're in Santiago until further notice. Wish us luck!
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[ALIKA T3]

Good luck man so you can finally get back on the road
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[blackglasspirate]

FINALLY AN UPDATE...

Well, the short of it is that we are back on the road and all appears to be fine. In the end it appears that it was the converter. According to the mechanic the internals were bad and we ended up getting a full rebuild on it. He also ended up replacing the discs again because some of them were slightly burnt just from the short period of time that I test drove it between the first (horrible) rebuild by the guy in Osorno, and my re-rebuild after his mistakes. I noticed it on the first gear discs when I rebuilt it down there but didn't have replacements. I ended up buying another rebuild kit from the same place in Santiago that I bought one from before (it was their last one) and the newer one actually had the grooved lines in the discs that the Bentley calls for. It was a different brand (first one was Alto) but I don't remember the name - I swear I took a picture of the box on my phone but now I can't find it.

Anyway, the mechanic did a great job on it, cleaned everything, and even repainted it. I can feel a lot more power from it now compared to before, it doesn't hesitate to change gears when cold, and it seems to be shifting smoothly. I feel like I can sometimes still feel a little rev in the RPMs between 2nd and 3rd under certain conditions, particularly if I'm giving it very light throttle. However, it doesn't happen often and it might have always been like that and I just never paid attention to it until the other problems started. Either way, everything else is working perfectly so it's not a big deal.

For the parts and labor in Santiago it cost me about $1850. Not cheap, but it was done right and I trust the mechanic. It also wasn't possible to buy just the discs from the parts supplier, just an entire kit, so that raised the price a little.

That said, anyone in a Vanagon in Chile or even Argentina that has a 010 automatic and needs work done, contact Leo Albornoz at Alnaval (www.alnaval.com). If you need parts, contact Jean Pierre Misleh at Granmarina (www.cajasautomaticas.cl). Both were extremely helpful in getting this resolved.

Unfortunately, the two months we lost due to this problem were the two months we planned on being in Patagonia. Now it's winter there and not only is the weather not so good, but many of the trails we wanted to do are closed. So our plan now is to head back north to explore Peru/Bolivia and then return to Patagonia in September when things start to thaw. It means we might not drive all the way back up through Central America like we had planned and may have to ship back from somewhere down here, but we'll just see.

Either way, even though we lost time/money due to this, we still met some really nice people along the way, got to meet up with some other traveling friends we met in Colombia before they return home to Switzerland, and now have the opportunity to meet up with some other old friends in Peru and travel together for a while. So, some good still came out of it.

Thanks again to everyone for the help/advice/encouragement through all of this. I definitely felt like I my head was going to explode on at least a few occasions!
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[elizer]

Glad you had a resolution. It will make a great story to tell.