AT transmission shifting weirdness

[kourt]

This is why I rebuild my own transmissions now... and they are not even that complicated.

Look at the bright side: you have so much more knowledge invested in the transaxle now, and your ability to troubleshoot and repair in the future is greatly enhanced. You are that much more independent of the opinions and skills of unknown mechanics.

Let us know how it goes. I've been checking in to The Samba all day hoping for your update.

kourt

[elizer]

This has been a crazy story to follow.

Just curious about some random its of the story.

How much did you end up having to pay the mechanic that let you stay at the shop for his assistance? Did you have to pay to stay there?

How did you end up handling the rebuilder? Did you have to end up paying him full price?

I wonder if there is a list like roadhaus to add the mechanic who helped you. It would be nice for future travelers.

I really hope I don't have to ever become proficient in transaxle rebuilding like you have.

[blackglasspirate]

Ok, sorry for the late update. Yesterday was another long day and I was exhausted by the end of it.

We road tested the van and have good and bad news.

Good news:
The van runs! It performs much better than it did after I got it back from the rebuilder. We drove it about 100 miles yesterday and don't currently have any leaks.

Bad news:
I still have some of the original problems. It shifts early between 2nd and 3rd and it revs/slips a little bit between them. Also this morning when the transmission was cold, I noticed it not wanting to shift from 1st to second until the RPMs were really high. I had that problem before, in fact it was the first symptom I started having, though it's not as bad as it was before. Also, it seems like the motor is consuming a lot of fuel, which started once the transmission problems began, but I need to fill the tank again and test.

So, at this point I can't think of anything but the torque converter, unless there are other opinions? The inside of the automatic section was completely torn apart, cleaned, rebuilt. New gaskets, seals, discs, steels, pistons, etc. The converter is less than a year old and was cleaned as well, but it's the only thing that hasn't been taken apart.

I have to do some more research to see if it's possible to get a rebuilt unit down here. So far I've found that I can get my current unit rebuilt in Santiago, but it takes a week and I couldn't stay in the mechanic's driveway here in Osorno any longer. Maybe I could have one shipped from the states and forfeit the core deposit.

The solution may be to drive up to Santiago if I can find an expert there and can get a converter. Before I was too scared to drive that far without knowing what was wrong inside the transmission. Now that I know the internals are in good shape, and it's highway cruising the whole way, I am not as worried to drive the 2-3 days to Santiago. That's the opposite way of where I want to go, but oh well.

I'm open to any opinions/recommendations, so have at it.
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'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[blackglasspirate]

[danfromsyr]

the 2nd to 3rd could be that the governor flyweights are hung out/open. and it jumping into the next gear because it 'thinks' you are going faster than you are yet.

the delayed shift from 1st to 2nd could be an issue with the adjustment of the 'manual valve' ie. the throttle relay lever that the throttle cable connects to and effects while you use the throttle.

I can't remember if you had ever done any trouble shooting on these 2 items.
both of them have effects on transition of the transmission stages.

[Wildthings]

I don't think the TC would cause problems with the shift timing, it would be more apt to cause high engine speeds under load or problems starting from a stop.

When we had a clogged governor when our '91 was new, it was causing one of the shifts to be late, (sorry don't remember which one) and I seem to remember some slippage, but an no longer sure. The governor is easy to remove with the tranny in place and all you would need to do is blow the ports out to clean it. Not sure how much air pressure is reasonable, but it shouldn't take much. My dealings were with the later "small" governor and not the early "fat" governor. The later governor is just two valves, one that closes with rpm and one that opens, and with it in hand it is pretty easy to see if everything is operating.

Getting the throttle rod adjusted correctly is important to a good operating transmission. A minor difference in the length of the rod makes a big difference in performance.

[blackglasspirate]

Thanks for the tips.

I did take the governor out and clean it with carb cleaner. Three times in fact, since I started having problems back in Argentina. From what I can tell it's functioning fine and nothing seemed to be stuck or clogged. That's not to say I'm not missing something. For the record, it's the later "small" governor as well.


The throttle relay lever that you speak of, do you mean that's connected to the rod that goes to the throttle body? If so, I've adjusted the linkage on the TB side, but never really messed with it on the transmission side. I could check that again. That particular issue in first only happened this morning when the engine was cold. Afterwards all subsequent 1st-2nd shifts were fine. It did the same thing, though more pronounced at the beginning of this saga. After the first shift, everything would be fine.

Currently talking to some contacts in Santiago that might be able to help. We'll see how that goes...
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[danfromsyr]

how did the 2nd gear apply piston look?
you replaced those seals iirc

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=587711
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[blackglasspirate]

[danfromsyr]

its ok we're just sounding off on things..

regarding the 'manual valve' what I call the throttle relay lever
there is adjustment on the front cable under the pedals and at the rear rod at the throttle body.
these 2 adjustments are to orient the position of the relay lever and that impacts the shifting points and firmness. this can cause a delay/early shift as well as a firm/soft shift.

like I said we're just sounding off on things here.. soo many things for such a simple AT transaxel huh.
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[blackglasspirate]

[Butcher]

Was the valvebody ever dissected? If not, that's where I would start.

[danfromsyr]

also one last thing since we're on AT education mode..
and some others may need to know or learn this
you know to NEVER coast downhill in neutral with an Automatic vanagon.
that it'll cause a terminal failure of the governor from lack of lubrication. and you'd end with a no go and possibly seized shaft at the bottom of the hill/grade/mtn

lastly do you have a Paypal account. I know I'd be fine with tossing you a few $$ for all this trouble and your patience not only in your problem but with us.
I know you didn't ask, and may be too proud to accept, but I've helped others in less trouble and distress.. I'd be happy to throw you and the Mrs/Ms a meal.. and the mechanic a 6pack.. PM me if you like.
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[blackglasspirate]

Yeah, I took every last piece apart and cleaned/inspected it. Nothing wrong that I could find, though there was debris from when the rebuilder put the circlip and retaining key in wrong.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[blackglasspirate]

[danfromsyr]

I'd have to do some searching. but in general if it's working and not seized
it's working..

just be warned.. and if more curious there are some

ok some searching later, here's a thread from another fella..
while some may say/feel it's ok.. i do NOT risk it for the sake of minor fuel savings.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511275
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[blackglasspirate]

Ok, good to know. I'll no longer coast in neutral!

Mine definitely isn't seized or broken so at least I have that.

Still trying to contact some places in Santiago to see if they can help. My patience and sanity is starting to wear thin. I'd be tempted to somehow freight a rebuilt unit from GTA but that would be incredibly expensive in multiple ways (shipping, import taxes, core deposit, etc.)

The good news is that it's currently driveable and we are no longer stuck sleeping/cooking jacked up on ramps without being able to pop the top. There were a few days I think my wife was about to half a meltdown, and I probably wasn't far behind! Will keep you updated with any progress.
_________________
'87 Vanagon GL Westfalia
IG: @holidayatsee
FB: https://www.facebook.com/holidayatsee

[dobryan]

Wishing you good vibes on your drive.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[danfromsyr]

this is why/where I suggest as the last part of test driving a major headache of a repair involves a nice dinner and non car talk with the special person in your life who hasn't either killed you, left you or both.
same for the Mechanic..

[MarkWard]

Stretch diagnosis. How did the governor drive gear look?
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