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deronmoped
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2006
Posts: 375
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: Power Steering. |
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I fixed a lot of things that bugged me about my 1970 Bus. Swapped out the engine for a quieter one (231 Buick V6), installed the brake set up out of a 1972 Bus (front disc, vacuum assist and larger rear drums), front and rear sway bars and mag wheels, four house stereo speakers (Klipsch) two under the dash, two under the rear seat, two sub-woofers and three amps.
Now I'm working on a power steering unit for it. I watched a few videos on other installs, even video on a kit for a Bus. So far I picked up a complete electric power steering unit (motor/gear driven shaft and control box). I chose a 2006 Toyota Prius as that was one of the recommended units on one video that had tried several units. Total cost was $55.00 out of a Pick your part junk yard. Probably took me a hour to remove the parts. I bench tested the unit and it works as advertised in the video. Apply a little torque to the steering shaft and the motor turns. Now all I have to do is pull my steering column and cut out a section do a little welding and reinstall, hook up the power and test drive.
This will be one of the best upgrades that can be done to a Bus. And it looks like it will be done for peanuts and a weekends worth of work. No more driving by parking spots that require my passengers to help me turn the steering wheel. Now fat people can ride up front. Next time I load up with a thousand pounds of materials, I will actually be able to steer, without breaking out in a sweat. I'm surprised that this is not a more common mod.
Here are some of the videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRzvO8hAyd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4TYQ_KJSpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDGjRSHUj1g
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1457975-35-elec...odule.html |
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Davydomes
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Joined: August 28, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: North West England (Savoury Pie Country)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| deronmoped wrote: |
This will be one of the best upgrades that can be done to a Bus. And it looks like it will be done for peanuts and a weekends worth of work. No more driving by parking spots that require my passengers to help me turn the steering wheel. Now fat people can ride up front. Next time I load up with a thousand pounds of materials, I will actually be able to steer, without breaking out in a sweat. I'm surprised that this is not a more common mod.
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Going to do the same very soon on our Bus. Bought a working second hand unit off a Bus sold for parts. Not sure of the make but we think it could be an early Easysteer unit. I tried it on a bus fitted with PS at Busfest last year........Wow! Effortless even when stationary. Because to low profiles on the front of ours it really is a wrestling match. Can't wait to get it done.
Good luck with your conversion.
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"Mum, Dad ………. I'm Bay"
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. Jean-Jaques Rousseau |
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deronmoped
Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2006
Posts: 375
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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If it came out of a Bus, should be really easy to swap it in to your Bus.
I will be taking pictures to document the way I adapted the Prius unit into my Bus. I'm going to try to keep the stock steering wheel and turning indicator selector. I got the Prius unit with two sets of universal joints, they may help if I want to tuck the unit up under the dash, but I probably won't need them. It even has the option for tilt of the steering wheel. The motor must draw a ton of current, looking at the size of the power wires, looks like 8 or 10 gauge. |
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Davydomes
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Joined: August 28, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: North West England (Savoury Pie Country)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| deronmoped wrote: |
If it came out of a Bus, should be really easy to swap it in to your Bus.
The motor must draw a ton of current, looking at the size of the power wires, looks like 8 or 10 gauge. |
It will, but the main bracket was missing. Will construct something based on photo's we have seen.
We are using a 75amp Alternator so we hope that helps 
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"Mum, Dad ………. I'm Bay"
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. Jean-Jaques Rousseau |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16959
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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What are the power requirements? My bus has a 38 amp generator
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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airschooled
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Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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I’m with Wildthings. Does your power steering setup apply the force before or after the steering box? If before, it will ruin your early bay steering box before it ruins your first set of tires. If after, then I think you’ll have a nice setup.
“Dry steering is for knobs.”
- Jeremy Clarkson
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 16959
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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It’s before the gearbox. The motor lives right between the drivers legs as part of the steering shaft. Pretty ugly too.
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
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Davydomes
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Joined: August 28, 2013
Posts: 110
Location: North West England (Savoury Pie Country)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| It’s before the gearbox. The motor lives right between the drivers legs as part of the steering shaft. Pretty ugly too. |
It is butt ugly. Painted ours Pastel White to match the column in a vein attempt to reduce its "industrial look". Lots of small winding streets in UK so it will be a God send. I have heard of no one in UK complaining of any damage/wear issues on the steering box though.
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Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. Jean-Jaques Rousseau |
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danfromsyr
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Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15143
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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the effort thru the steering box into the wheels is the same..
powered steering
or
Armstrong steering
unless you like to crank it up into the steering stops hard.. but I'd imagine that the PS motor has a max power/resistance slip sort of feature.
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| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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orwell84
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Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2536
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| I like the idea and I get why it would be a nice upgrade. I like the way my bus drives and I enjoy driving it. After driving all day on the highway, I am tired. It's not just the steering; vibration, engine, wind and road noise. It's just so much fun to drive. I'd hate it though if I had to do my 50 mile highway commute to work in it every day. My grandmother would have liked it when she owned the bus. But she had trucker arms. |
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Abscate
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| Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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A direct electric power steering mod? I am surprised such a vehicle is insurable.
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Manfreds78bay
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Joined: February 27, 2009
Posts: 754
Location: PNW
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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Got any pictures?
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airschooled
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Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 12721
Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| Manfreds78bay wrote: |
| Got any pictures? |
Just a video:
Link
""Dry steering is for knobs."
- Jeremy Clarkson"
- Robbie
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dstimm
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Joined: June 29, 2018
Posts: 153
Location: Encinitas, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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I drove a bus with lite-steer and it was pretty amazing, I am not a huge fan of cutting my steering shaft in half, but overall I think it is an amazing upgrade.
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Keith
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Joined: August 15, 2005
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Location: Brodheadsville, PA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| A direct electric power steering mod? I am surprised such a vehicle is insurable. |
No, it is electric power assist, if the unit fails it just reverts back to manual steering. There are crap loads of vehicles on the roads with these, have been for over a decade now.
This is on my list of things to do when I get my bus back on the road.
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Last edited by Keith on Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Keith
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| asiab3 wrote: |
I’m with Wildthings. Does your power steering setup apply the force before or after the steering box? If before, it will ruin your early bay steering box before it ruins your first set of tires. If after, then I think you’ll have a nice setup.
“Dry steering is for knobs.”
- Jeremy Clarkson
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I’m trying to follow your logic here. It doesn’t matter if it is before or after. Nothing is going to ruin the steering box or tires..
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Formerly known in the forums as "OVALTEEN"
"I firmly believe that some villagers from Botswana could probably build a better road than PennDot."- Splitty
"If you do anything to your car someone will hate on you for it. People absolutely love to complain and find fault with others. Don't let it bother you. Just live and have fun."- Lind |
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airschooled
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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| Keith wrote: |
| asiab3 wrote: |
I’m with Wildthings. Does your power steering setup apply the force before or after the steering box? If before, it will ruin your early bay steering box before it ruins your first set of tires. If after, then I think you’ll have a nice setup.
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I’m trying to follow your logic here. It doesn’t matter if it is before or after. Nothing is going to ruin the steering box or tires.. |
If powered before the steering box:
The worm/peg steering box in a mostly-empty early bay requires less than one ft*lb. of torque to turn at speeds above a few mph. (The worm/roller on a late bay requires even less.) The torque required on either box to turn the tires when stationary is between 30 and 50 ft*lbs. and grows to more than double that when at cargo capacity. This assumes you're using fair-weather tires like the common Hankooks or Yokohamas. (Add a bit more required torque when using a more aggressive tread.)
Take the 32 TINY and NLA needle pins inside the NLA steering peg, roll that peg along the NLA worm gear, and pay $1400 plus shipping and VAT to force 100-times more force through the parts than what they experience in normal operation, and you'll see the problem.
I'm not saying making one dry rotation of the wheel is going to ruin anything, but the installation of an electric power steering system is going to allow and encourage drivers to force well over 40 times a 'normal' load through the steering box on a regular basis. It is everyone's job, as a hobbyist or VW professional, to preserve NLA equipment whenever possible.
If powered after the steering box:
Wear your tires (maybe tie rods and center pin too?) by dry steering out all you want, I'll pass. 
--
I don't have the technology to chart/graph the various speeds of car movement that correspond with how much less torque is required with increasing speeds, but I can certainly say that at a creep of no more than 1-2 mph, I can turn the wheel of my early bay (with all-terrain tires) with a pinky from lock to lock. My secrets are as follows:
- Inflate front tires to 30-35psi (depending on long-term wear patterns.)
- Clean, oil, and adjust steering box to proper unloaded center drag.
- Steer just before coming to a stop, or just after releasing the clutch to start off.
- Develop a bond with these cars and preserve them. 
Robbie
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Spike0180
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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Robbie, I think you're correct, but I think your points are a bit misleading at first. The real issue is as you stated
"the installation of an electric power steering system is going to allow and encourage drivers to force well over 40 times a 'normal' load through the steering box on a regular basis."
This is the real issue, if you can manage to not crank on the wheel while sitting still then a power assist leads to no more wear than normal. Also if you find yourself cranking on the steering wheel while sitting still without power assist, you are going to lead to pre-mature wear. The issue isn't the unit itself its the lack of knowledge on how to drive an old vehicle.
Also, vw should have made this thing more robust... just saying. I should be able to crank my wheel whenever I want and not be at risk of breaking or misusing anything.
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Manfreds78bay
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Power Steering. |
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Thanks for the video. I was hopping the OP had some pics of his DYI setup. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm going to totally do this.
I have a lot of instances when i have to turn the wheel and I'm not moving. It will make city driving a dream.
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