Argh, &%$#$% Engine Install :-(

[DougB]

Hello all,

I'm having a hell of a time getting my type 4 engine to mate with my 5-rib 002 tranny (which is in the vehicle), and just wanted to see if I'm missing anything.

Brief backstory:
- removed engine to replace bad pilot bearing
- using the same flywheel, pressure plate and now clutch disc (just to remove any variables from new parts)
- nothing different about my configuration except that the thin metal piece through which the flywheel bolts and tranny input shaft pass was not previously installed (though it shouldn't be an issue since my clutch alignment tool fits inside it without issue)
- tranny is still in the car, and starter is still in the tranny

The issue I'm having is that I just can't get the two fully mated. There are no flapper boxes installed, so it's not like they're interfering with the firewall crossbrace or the starter (a mistake I was making earlier). Clutch plate is definitely aligned, throwout bearing is fully pulled in so it's not in the way. I can get them mated enough to have the toothed part of the flywheel nested inside the tranny bell housing, but not far enough to get nuts on the 2 studs on the bottom (rear, or front if FIF) of the engine. I've tried detaching and re-attaching, while moving both the flywheel and the input shaft a bit, several times as well just in case it was spline interference. I've also verified that the clutch plate moves well on the input shaft splines.

Question: I noticed that Ratwell has removing the starter as part of his process...but I feel like I've installed the engine in the past with the starter installed. Is that a must-do?

Any advice for a very weary soul? Thanks in advance,

- Doug :-/
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[SGKent]

turn the engine a little with the alternator until you feel the input shaft slide thru the clutch. View the gap between sides and be sure that all are parallel. I am assuming you used a clutch tool to put the clutch in, and if new that you checked it first to be sure it slides onto the input shaft smoothly.
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[busdaddy]

^X2^, and put the bus in 4th gear with the brake on while doing that.
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[DougB]

That idea to turn the engine a bit from the pulley side is a good one, hadn't tried that. I did use a clutch tool and have also verified that the clutch disc slides well on the input shaft splines.

So if Steve didn't come back saying "of course you need to remove the starter" then perhaps it's not necessary? I mean, with the starter drive gear retracted it doesn't even touch the flywheel when even when the tranny and engine are fully mated, correct?

Thanks!
- Doug
_________________
'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife

[zabo]

what thin metal piece? the pressure plate collar?

anyway yes- sounds like an alignment issue to me. You may need to adjust the jack position under the engine or try to tip it forward or backwards a bit while pushing it in.
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[SGKent]

I've always put the starter in last myself so I can't answer that. I have fought like you with an engine for many minutes and then suddenly when it is just right it simply slides together. The main thing to watch are the gaps. That will tell you if the engine and trans are really aligned. For me, T4 engines are a lot harder to put with the transmission than T1 were because you have to come up and in, rather than straight in like a T1 with the removable apron. That is why I pull the transmission and engine as a unit.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[jtauxe]

The starter is fine. I never remove mine during engine removal/install.

Although this is not the problem, you do want to use a new 5-hole washer (thin metal piece) and new flywheel bolts on installation. The bolts have serrated faces that dig into the 5-hole washer, guaranteeing that they will not back out.

Last time I had trouble getting the engine and transaxle to get together, even though they were lined up, it was because the clutch cable was too tight, meaning that the fingers in the pressure plate were engaging with the throwout bearing during the install, keeping things from going together without enough force to depress the pressure plate. Did you mess with your clutch cable adjustment at all?
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[Randy in Maine]

Sometimes you have to change "the angle of the dangle" and jack up the transmission a bit to get them to mate up correctly.

[Abscate]

You don't have to pull the starter.

Clutch should be eased of freeplay

Most likely you need to turn the engine that 15-30 degrees to mate splines
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[williamM]

Fought "Grey whale" for almost an hour and a half (3 of us)- and after a group swear- it slid right in. I have known of some "risk takers" to hook up just the starter, and bump it round a bit after it's close enough to engage teeth , that made the last quarter inch a snap fit. - there are hazards of course.--

Ours hit about where the pilot bearing would have been, so suspected that was the issue.
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[Abscate]

Just don't EVER EVER try to draw it close with the bolts/nuts

When its right, it will go together.
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[Wildthings]

Check that the clearances are the same all the way around between the engine and bellhousing and then while pushing lightly on the engine turn the crank a few degrees and you should feel the engine move forward a bit as the splines align. Done right it is very easy to get a Type 4 engine to mate.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

he said the pilot bearing was trashed. what does the end of the input shaft look like? if it's all mangled you may have fucked up the new bearing, and if it's got a nasty burr that could be stopping it from going in.
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[sodbuster]

Stupid question. Did you remove the mount bolts from the "rabbit ears" on the bell housing? To allow more movement of the trans, and support the trans with a jack to keep the two aligned? Like I said stupid question.

[bbrowncods]

Just put mine in a couple of weeks ago and had the same problem on going in that last 1/2-3/4 inch. Finally put my feet on the heat exchangers and wiggled it back and forth and it just popped in.

[DougB]

Success! Steve gets the prize for the first winning suggestion but maybe Abscate wins for probably the most “bad habit correcting” advice (don’t use the bolts to draw the pieces together). Rotating the crank on the pulley side did the trick. The clutch adjusted to the correct pedal travel, too.

Now it’s time to plug everything back in...thanks so much again!!!

- Doug
_________________
'75 Campmobile (tin-top to SpaceRoof)
'73 Fastback
'52 BMW R67/2
'41 Zundapp KS600
'55 Puch SGS250
A very, very understanding wife

[TomWesty]

Sweet!
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[jtauxe]

I did this all over again with an engine reinstallation this week. It had been awhile, and my notes did not include the tidbit about both putting the transaxle into gear and turning the engine "by hand" with the alternator bolt. One I did both those things, it slipped right in. I have updated my notes.
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John
"Travelling in a fried-out Kombi, on a hippie trail, head full of zombie..." - Colin Hay and Ron Strykert
http://vw.tauxe.net
1969 Transporter, 1971 Westfalia, 1976, 1977, 1976, 1977, 1971, 1973, 1977 Westfalias,
1979 Champagne Sunroof, 1974 Westfalia Automatic, 1979 Transporter, 1972 Sportsmobile, 1973 Transporter Wild Westerner, 1974 Westfalia parts bus, 1975 Mexican single cab *FOR SALE*, 1978 Irish 4-door double cab RHD

[SGKent]

Good job John. One night we tried 3 times to put a racing engine in. Usually it was a 2 minute transaction but this particular night nothing worked. Frustrated, we pulled the engine out again and tried a 4th time, same angles, same everything and it just slid in. Sometimes they are just a PITA. Sometimes a simple rotation fixes it.
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