Forest Find 1961 Mouse Grey 11-Window Standard

[Okie Adam]

Phew! I'm glad everyone seems to agree with the method! There was a 50/50 chance it could have gone the other way and I was a dumbass!

[Clatter]

I couldn’t get the gap from the clamps filled at first either..

Took about a year or two, now I can do it.
It’s a super-fast little ‘squiggle’ movement, like a zig-zag back and forth across the gap, exactly as the trigger is pulled.
Has to be faster than the speed of light..!

Once you can do it this way, you can get a really flat weld that needs very little grinding.
Penetration becomes a total non-issue as well.

Once you start wanting NO pin-holes, you can drive yourself crazy.
I have been resorting to haiku..

Another thing that got me was wind.
Since I weld outside under a carport, wind is everything.
Only the very calmest days will I even try.
So make sure the garage door is closed.. FWIW.
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[LAGrunthaner]

Interesting tip about the wind Clatter. Longmont1302’s thread is getting me motivated to drag out my equipment to the driveway and try out some of these techniques of using panel clamps vs magnets or traditional clamps on butt welds. I have a box of panel clamps I haven't used because that gap doesn't seem right to me but many people use them.

https://www.eastwood.com/intergrip-panel-clamps-set-of-4.html#

[Longmont1302]

Thanks for all the feedback. Inspired by the discussion here, I got the butt weld clamps out again today. First, without them. Pass 1:

Than pass 2, which seemed a little better:

And then pass 3 with all the same settings:

I tried to quickly move across the gap, but I got nothing to show for it. Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong? Is it just that the gap is too big?

[Eric&Barb]

Gap is not too big, need to learn to stitch from one side to the other by moving the nozzle across the gap.
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[germanrust]

Erik, and or Barb is correct, you need to learn, by practicing, to stitch the two edges together. Try different settings on your heat and wire feed speed. I'm not sure you are getting proper shielding, or you have some sort of contamination, you shouldn't have those black carbon burns around the tack. Just the heat tint rings. Find some other scrap pieces of square tubing, clamp them together, and practice filling in the gap. The corners of the tube will allow you to practice your tacks/welds without blowing thru the metal. Again, try different settings, and after you've improved on that, then try welding on the thinner gauge. You need to burn some wire, before you tackle a relatively difficult weld like putting body panels together. Sorry if I missed if your welder has position settings, or infinite. With heat at position 1-4, or wire speed the same, it can be tough to get the balance right sometimes. Hate to beat a drum, but practice! Good luck dude, my buddy has a mouse '61 standard, it's rough, but a rare bird. We are all rooting for you.

[germanrust]

Ok Longmont, I saw the thread title, got excited, and went straight to the first, then last page. I have now read back a few pages, and can say, that everyone's tips are spot on. I see that your welder has positional settings, that limits the amount fine tuning you can do in regards to the heat and wire speed. Not sure what C25 gas is, I shield with 75%argon, 25% co2. If you are using Big Box wire from their welding section, try to source some from a welding supply, it's better quality. Also, run a 120 grit flap disk over the weld surface lightly to clean the surface, even acetone leaves a film, and the stainless brush doesn't make the grade. Do your tacks 1/4" apart, as stated, and fill in between, patiently. The previous tack will be thicker, so start the next tack off of that, and weave quickly. You are doing really well for a beginner, and again, I'm sorry, but, practice. I've been tig/mig'in custom architectural details for 27 years and still struggle sometimes, good luck!

[mandraks]

[LAGrunthaner]

Yes great welding and metal setup too:

Link

[Clatter]

More power,
And maybe more wire..
Those welds look cold to me.

You want them to lay flatter,
And shinier.
With none of that carbon soot..

Your gas flow looks maybe a bit too low/little?
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What’s That Noise?!?

[Longmont1302]

I'm still struggling trying to butt weld 22 gauge steel when using clamps. I burn though almost every time. When I place the two pieces of steel right next to each other (without the clamps or the gap) I don't burn through, but things do warp a bit. I've tried increasing voltage, wire speed, and gas pressure. Still using .024 wire. While I'm pulling the trigger for just an instant, I've tried quickly moving the tip across the gap as well as with the gap. I've also enjoyed watching this Urchfab video a few times: https://youtu.be/v9yjCc-yNEQ (although I wish the welding itself wasn't sped up).

This video shows my best results so far (back down to the lowest voltage setting and a wire speed of 30), where still more than half my welds burn though:


Link

Here's what this looks like (after a few more tries):

...and here's the back:

If something sounds or looks wrong in the video (or if you can think of anything else I'm missing), I'd welcome the input.

[Longmont1302]

I've been practicing welding in preparation for filling the holes where the floor meets the front of our bus (under the headlight):

Having read that old steel welds differently than the new steel I had been practicing with, I cut a hole out of a junked 70s Beetle fender, then cut a new piece of 20 gauge steel for the patch. While I still occasionally burn through (see the bottom right below), it's happening far less and I feel like I'm getting better at patching those burn holes:

I'm curious what others use for grinding. Above I used a 36 grit flap disc.

I'm uncertain of how far to take the grinding phase. In the example above, I could keep grinding (and even adding some welds in the low spots), to reduce the visibility of the seam, but the more I grind, the less steel I end up with. If I could make the holes at the top of this post look this good, I'd be delighted to put some filler in the low spots and paint it, right?

[Culito]

Flap discs are great for finishing. I just use a regular grinding wheel to take the high spots off the welds, finish off with a flap disc. Your finished patch looks good - at that point I'd skim coat with filler, as long as there are no pinholes (shine a light from the back side). I'm definitely not a pro auto body guy though.
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'64 standard w/2.0L type 4
'62 bug

[ryans65]

careful with the flap disc, they can get the metal hot really fast... they can also take a lot of material off with very little effort...

My method is to grind down the tacks with my right angle air die grinder as I weld. I will place a couple of tacks a few inches apart from one another to set the piece in place then grind those down flush then repeat. Its more tedious but its a lot easier to get a few tacks ground down at a time then running a grinder across a continuous bead of weld and introducing a lot heat into that panel.

[Longmont1302]

[Longmont1302]

[motofly196]

I just watched your video... I have that table you are using. If your ground clamp is on the table with the gold finish...clean off the finish from the table to get a really good ground. Your wire speed sounds too slow.

Once you get the ground clamp on a spot with bare metal, try this. Place a small strip of metal on the table. Get your machine close to you so you can reach the wire speed control knob. With one hand (doesn't matter which one) start welding on the metal (try and maintain the same distance you use while welding) and at the same time, with your other hand on the wire speed control knob, start adjusting the speed until your weld sounds like frying bacon.

What's happening in your video is that with such a slow wire speed, you are getting a cold weld. You want a spot weld to have enough heat so you dont burn through, but if it's too cold, you spend more time in one spot creating more heat than if the machines voltage was turned up. When it's right, you get ONE quick burst that gives you a nice spot weld.

Keep going, you'll get it. Good practice on the same metal you'll be using. .023 wire, Stargon on 25 cfh. Start with the heat range you've got on your welder's chart. Make sure to check your gas flow while pulling the trigger. The needle will bounce a little when the wire starts moving.

[Longmont1302]

[Longmont1302]

I've been practicing welding on scraps, and, perhaps subconsciously, have been putting off actually welding on the bus. Last night I moved past that. After a few practice tacks attaching a rusty piece that came off the bus to some new 20 gauge steell, I actually started welding a small patch where the floor meets the front of the bus (just under the back of the headlight).

Given a little burn-through I might try a few tacks with the voltage back to "1" rather than "2" tonight. Also, if the photo is any indication, it looks like I could have gotten the flap disc a little closer to the welding area, especially underneath.

Anyway, thanks for the help. Glacial progress is still progress!

[Eric&Barb]

"1" is not going to work, as is the "2" setting looks a bit cold. You do not want welds to be popping loose later.
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