Forest Find 1961 Mouse Grey 11-Window Standard

[Mr Margaret Scratcher]

Looking at this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=669428&highlight=inner+headlight

It seems like remove the a post to get access, patch it, and then stitch the A post back together:

I was just worried that I'd end up welding the A post to the inner front panel as I weld it back together, rather than it just being spot/plugwelded as it should be, but I don't think it will really matter.

[Longmont1302]

I think you have the right idea. Thanks for reminding me of the Culito thread. He does fine work and documents it well, too. It's much appreciated.

[Mr Margaret Scratcher]

Okay I think I've got it!

Cut out the rotten metal from the A post and inner front panel, patch the inner front panel, then when patching the A post, slide some copper in between that and the front panel so it doesn't get welded to it. Hey presto, both bits patched, but not accidentally welded together.


Again, whether or not it matters is another thing

[Longmont1302]

While I wait for my welds to cool, I wanted to share some recently uncovered artifacts from our bus' past. This 1961 11-window spent all of its first life on and around a children's summer camp. A few weeks ago I was able to take some photos of pictures from camp yearbooks. The first one is from 1962:

The caption reads: "A comfortable bus is used on many camp trips." It looks like these guys (all past retirement age now) were enjoying the ride. Finding this photo gave me my first view of both the middle seat and the headliner. While my search wasn't 100% exhaustive, the next photo I found was 1991 when the bus was no longer being used to transport campers (but was still delighting them):

Campers were periodically allowed to paint the bus with house paint. Their last coats (a Batman theme) can be seen below and at the beginning of this thread. My final discovery is from 1996:

Its fun to see just a few of the smiles this bus provided for kids over its decades of service. More smiles are to come.

[Longmont1302]

My next step is to get access to the driver A pillar to do some rust repair. My plan is to replace the bottom inner and outer dogleg and the lower A pillar with KlassicFab parts. So I needed to get the remains of the old dogleg and the door hinge out of the way.

First I cut off the bottom of the dogleg: https://youtu.be/JiiQ8pxuXSo

Then I needed to get the door off. The screws were pretty rusty:

So I began spraying them with Aero Kroil penetrant every day, and whacking at them with this hand impact driver:

My technique was to put a P4 bit in the driver, set it in the screw, and twist it counter-clockwise as hard as I could while I hit it with a hammer. Even after double checking that I had the driver set to counter-clockwise, I didn't budge any of the 8 screws. The driver handle would turn, but the screws wouldn't.

So I read up on the door screw removal threads here, which included tips like welding bolts to the old screws, drilling the screws out, and using something called an "Old Man" connected to an air hammer/chisel. But before taking any of these steps, I asked my neighbor Bill if he'd bring his hand impact driver over so we could see if the problem might be with my driver or technique.

Neither of us had any success with any of the hand tools.

While I have a H.F. electric impact wrench, I figured that would just strip the old screws. However, Bill also brought an air impact wrench that differs from mine in that you can dial it down, so we tried that at its lowest setting:

In my case, this was the tool for the job. All 8 screws came out effortlessly. Maybe it helped that I had been spraying the Kroil and whacking on them all week, but they all just backed right out. I hope this helps someone else try that first!

[EverettB]

Nice, that was lucky they all came out easily. Approaching a miracle there...
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[Longmont1302]

I'm trying to remove what's left of the dogleg from this A pillar before deciding how best to proceed. I'm also trying to learn how to find and cut apart spot welds. In an effort to find where the spot welds were on the outside of this dog leg, I started using a wire brush by hand. When that didn't reveal any spots I used the angle grinder with a flap disc. Still no spots:

Any suggestions? Keep grinding for clues or ?

It's not clear to me what I can salvage below the hinge, and clearly I'm going to do some cutting, but I think it makes sense to try to pull the dogleg remains off first, if just for the practice. Any advice appreciated!

[Clatter]

Especially because of all the house paint brushed on there..


I'd be getting things cleaned up first.

Paint remover, stripping wheels, etc.

I found that a 'twisted knot' wheel in an angle grinder most effective.
Be REAL careful using one of those, though..


Until you get all of that goo out of the way,
it's going to be real hard seeing spot-welds.


JMHO..

You go brother!
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Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Clatter]

oh, and BTW,
Anything sandpaper, IE a flap disc, is going to be good for doing a final dressing of welds, once they are as smooth as possible with a grinding wheel.

Abrasives remove metal.
You do not want to be removing metal right now,
As you'll make things thin,
And hide spot welds.

Use something flexible that will remove paint and filler, but leave as much metal as possible intact and in place.



Here's a twisted knot wheel,
Great way to remove filler and old paint layers,
But make extra sure it doesn't get away from you!

_________________
Bus Motor Build

What’s That Noise?!?

[Busbodger]

Just read the whole thread. Great project and you look like you are having fun.

On the welding: look inside the door of your welder. Most have a sticker that shows all the basic settings based on the gas, welding wire size, and thickness of the material.

If you do a search on Google Images for "lincoln mig 180 welding chart" you see the chart. The chart for your welder will be different b/c your welder is different.

On my welder I use 75/25 argon/CO2 gas, and .023" welding wire. It takes fewer amps to melt the wire so less heat. My welder also specifies a 3/8" stick out - the distance from the tip of the gun to the end of the wire. If the stick out is longer, the temperature goes down. If the stick out is short of course temps go up. Wire speed also affects the heat a little so start with the basic chart settings and then adjust them to get the effect you want.

I tend to set the welder to the chart and then add or remove heat as I feel is necessary - maybe 1/2 a step up or down on the voltage knob.

If your welder does not have infinite adjustment on the heat, you might need to pick a temp based on the chart and then adjust the wire speed to get the effect you want. The wire speed is always infinitely adjustable.

Suggestion: YouTube channel "Welding Tips and Tricks". He does a good job of filming his welds so you can see too.

Also: https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/practical.htm

Lastly: adjustable helmet. I find that a #10 is too dark and a #9 is closer to the right shade unless I'm welding with big fluxcore wire which I seldom do. Fluxcore is great on thick materials but I seldom have good luck with it on thin materials. Adjustable shade autodark helmet helps. I have a good Miller. The cheaper helmets react slower and might long term be hard on your eyes.

Grinding your welds: someone up thread said it already: grind with the edge of a thin cutoff wheel. Removes excess weld without making alot of heat.

I weld in short bursts. Weld for 1-2 seconds and rest, move elsewhere for the next weld, repeat. Spread the heat out best you can. A chunk of copper can be a good backstop. The smaller welders may need a longer weld burst due to lower AMPS. Not sure.

Lastly: great picture of your two boys "driving" the bus. Made me laugh outloud!

[Longmont1302]

[WildIdea]

I was in the same boat with similar rust spot once. I think if you just clamp on what’s left of the dogleg with a vice grip and start wiggling the spot welds will start to reveal themselves. Maybe a few slices on that dogleg remnant so your only wiggling a two three inch piece will prob pop right off. Or at least see where they are so you can tell where to thin the metal so will pop off wiggling it. Once I get down to where your at, I feel I wiggle spot welds apart more often than drill. Short patient back and forths really don’t damage the metal all that much.

I’ll add, when working a new area for the first time, an approach I’ve used to decipher what’s going on in places like this is look at images of replacement panels on suppliers websites for clues as to what I’m dealing with. I think the face of the bus wraps around the outer lip of the A Pilar (don’t hold me to that, never did a front skin swap) but the dogleg just has short flares that are welded to the flat side of the inner lower A Pilar.

Looking at your picture again, there might be a few inches of front nose skin that needs peeled back that your dogleg flare is tucked under. Not a legit steel guy here, so could easily have it wrong.
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1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion

[Longmont1302]

[Longmont1302]

[Eric&Barb]

[WildIdea]

Yes! Right on. I have a bunch air chisels and spot weld drill heads but I actually use a thin metal chisel and light taps from a ball peen hammer and sometimes a pick to wiggle between metal to locate spot welds and just peel them apart with pliers. Klein tie wire pliers have a 45* wire tightening shelf on the head that works as a lever for prying against.

I had almost the same exact rust on my inner lower A but my nose was straight and clean so I just built up the inside and closed it off and went back to my dogleg from there. It was slow going the first time. I just patched the obvious and took my time till the fog lifted. Looks to me this side your on is basically the same patch as you did on the passenger side. Hopefully, you can save the hinge area.
_________________
1977 Sage Green Westy
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=691987
1965 SWR Walk-Through Standard
1960 211 Panel American Camper Conversion

[Longmont1302]

[Longmont1302]

Thanks for the tips and encouragement. I'm afraid I ended up just rolling the steel back without discovering any spot welds here, but I get the idea and will keep working on it. I'll also look into the Klein tie wire pliers.

[WildIdea]

[Longmont1302]

Thanks for the photos, WildIdea!