78 (GE) 2.0L engine to replace 77 (GD) 2.0L?

[whocanduncan]

The short question:

Can I install a "GE" 2.0L FI motor from a '78 manual into a '77 automatic bus that had a "GD" 2.0L FI motor without any modifications?
---------------------------

The long question:

I acquired a '77 bay with a 2.0L FI with an AUTOMATIC transmission about a year ago. The motor was sitting in the cargo area of the bus so we believe it to be blown.

I recently bought a 2.0L FI motor and STANDARD tranny from a '78 bay. My goal is to simply stab the motor from the '78 into the '77 and sell the tranny. The '78 came complete, including AFM, ECU, Exhaust and wiring.

I've read a few posts regarding the differences of the two engines, GD vs. GE (primarily AFM, Vacuum and Lifters). I also noticed the '77 has a vacuum advance on the distributor whereas the '78 does not. I have a few questions remaining:

What is a Ballast resistor? or is it already on the motor?
What about the O2 sensor? Will I need to adapt one onto the '77 due to the year or automatic transmission?
Should I switch out the distributors (77 --> 7?

Links to referenced posts:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7528641
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=470344&view=next

Numbers from the '78:
Engine: GE036988 2.0L FI
ECU: 043 906 021 V - 0 280 000 105

Numbers from the '77:
Engine: GD044280 2.0L FI
ECU: 022 906 021 T - 0 280 000 151

The '78 "GE" motor is complete so I'm thinking all I need to do is put it in, switch the ECUs and go.

[furgo]

I like the way you summarized your question. I'll do the same with the answer

Short (partial) answer

• Engine/transmission swap: can't answer this part. I would think you'd be fine doing the full swap, but more experienced folks will give you a better answer.
• Distributor: need to know both distributor part numbers to be able to answer
• FI system: with your parts, I reckon the easiest thing would be to put together a Federal system, which is probably what you already have anyway.
∘ The ECU that came with the GE engine is a Beetle one, but you can probably use the '77 one you have instead.
∘ In this case, you'll need a resistor pack if you don't already have one.
∘ Check that the AFM has 7 pins.
∘ Check the FI harness to see it matches your FI system.
∘ Get familiar with the FI manual.
∘ You might be better off using the vacuum (and centrifugal) advance distributor from your '77 engine, once the part # is known.

Long (partial) answer

I cannot answer your general question about the swap, but I'm sure some experts will chime in on that.

Since you have all the parts with you, it would help others provide you a better answer if you tell us:

• The distributor part numbers: they are stamped on the distributor body. Generally a 10-digit Bosch part # and a 9-digit plus optional letter VW part #. Either would do.
• Do you have an O2 sensor or a resistor pack (VW part # 022 906 079, more on this below)?
• What's the part number of each of your AFMs? Do they have 6 or 7 pins?
• Not strictly necessary, but a picture of your FI harnesses might be helpful. It can help telling whether they are for a CA or Federal setup. At least the ECU part # of your auto '77 would indicate it's Federal.

To simplify, and in the context of your '77 and '78 engines, there were two FI setups depending on the market's emission requirements:

• Federal: air/fuel ratio (AFR) open loop, no O2 sensor. Current-limiting injector resistors (a.k.a. ballast resistors, resistor pack, series resistors). 11-pin double relay. Mechanical ignition.
• California: AFR closed loop control, O2 sensor. Resistor current-limiting built into the ECU. 13-pin double relay. Electronic ignition.

[Randy in Maine]

You will also need to swap out the engine mounting studs at the bottom of the engine. I think the autos are longer.

I think the carbon canister air supply nipple is on the right side on a GE and the left side on a GD code.

[Wildthings]

The blocks are going to be a direct swap, so the easiest thing overall might be to strip both engines to the block, reseal the one you intend to run and then dress it up with all the correct goodies for your model year.

-Both years would have come with the same vacuum advance distributors, so choose the dizzy from your piles that was OEM. Be aware that it is very likely that the distributor drives are not installed the same between the two engines (like one chance in twelve) so you will have to properly time the replacement distributor to the engine it is being installed one. Swapping from a non standard 009 distributor for a SVDA (single vacuum dual advance) distributor will always cause confusion. It would be best to read up on how to correctly install the distributor drive and install it be the book.

-Choose the best of the two exhaust systems.

-Use the best of your cooling tins between the two engines, I believe they are identical for the 77 and 78 model years with a nipple for the carbon canister connection on the right cylinder tin. Use the best fan shroud as well.

-Figure out if your new engine has hydraulic or solid lifters and adjust the valves accordingly.

-Chose the FI system for your model year unless it is damaged or otherwise will not function properly. Now might be a good time to have your injectors professionally serviced.

-You will need to pull the flywheel or flex plate to renew the flywheel seal. Reinstall whichever part you need to match your tranny and CHECK the END PLAY as per the manual. Actually it is best to check the end play on the engine you intend to use both before and after messing with the flywheel or flex plate. If the end play was out of spec initially you will need to figure out why and adjust your final endplay accordingly. YOU CAN NOT make up for a loose thrust bearing by adding more shims.

-Choose the engine cooling fan that appears to be in the best condition. If need be take it to the car wash and give it a good cleaning. DO NOT take it apart to clean it.

Install all the parts to the thermostat system salvaging the best from pieces from your two piles. Buy whatever parts are missing. Having a functioning thermostatic system is more important than you think, yes the engine will run without most of these parts, but depending on where you live and how you drive you may shorten your engine life be 2/3rds if the system doesn't work correctly.

-While you have your engine stripped down to the block, carefully peen around all the oil galley plugs if you still have the original pressed in plugs. If your engine has screwed in oil galley plugs, smile and move on.

-Remove and clean the oil pickup screen on the engine you are going to use. While the cover is off remove and inspect the long case bolt that supports the screen, it should be straight and not bent. If bent replace it will a grade 10.9 or 12.9 bolt of the same length. You need to use sealant under the head of the bolt when going back together. Do not over tighten the bolt that holds the cover on when you are replacing the cover, it takes very little torque 7-9 ft*lbs. IMO you are now done with messing with the oil screen until it is time to rebuild the engine sometime far into the future as cleaning and inspecting the screen at every oil change is a waste of time and detrimental to your engine as repeatedly tightening the bolt can lead to a cracked engine block.

-Check that the threads for the TSII temperature sensor in the left head are in good condition. If badly corroded or stripped drill out and tap the bolt hole next to the #4 intake so you can relocate the sensor to a new location. Use never seize on the TSII threads when reinstalling it. Check that whichever sensor you are planning to use shows the correct resistance according to the manual.

-Chose the best looking alternator and take it to your local mom and pops automotive electric shop and have them check and renew if need be the brushes and bearings.

[furgo]

[CarlosZ]

I think you need to change the axles also.

[Alan Brase]

If I'm not mistaken, A GE engine is a 2.0 hydraulic lifter bus engine from 1978 OR 1979.
Here's the problem:
The two years take different heads and the corresponding heater boxes. 1978's use the early copper ring exhaust gaskets; 1979's use the Vanagon type flat rectangular port gaskets.
If the engine has the type 2 type heater boxes, 1978 or 1979 doesn't make much difference. BUT 1979's are one year only and extremely hard to find used or new. (Probably a better design, tho!)
NO type 4 engine should have a centrifugal only distributor. Functionally, the FI systems are about the same. Just need to get all the parts from one or the other. Personally, I like the California system with the O2 sensor.
Al
_________________
Al Brase
Projects: 67 sunroof bug, 67 Porsche 912 Targa, 70 Westy
Dec 1955 Single Cab pickup WANT 15" BUS RIMS dated 8/55, thru 12/55
To New owners: 1969 doublecab, 1971 Dormobile
Vanagons:
80 P27 Westy JUL 1979, 3rd oldest known US
83 1.6TD Vanagon, 87 Wolfie Westy daily driver, swap meet home

[aerosurfer]

[furgo]

Good call, thanks.

I think I didn't choose the best picture there and perhaps someone has a better one of the charcoal canister nipple on the left.

According to eche_bus' thread, which is where it came from, that nipple was relocated where it's on the picture upon installation of an A/C system, so definitely not a good illustration of what I was trying to show. Regardless, I don't think it's the decel valve tube, which is still in the same location at the T junction with the brake booster as can be seen on the last picture there. I would still guess that it's the tube going to the charcoal canister on the firewall.

To the OP, apologies for the confusion. I hope that what you can take from this is simply that you should watch for which charcoal canister type you use (or choose) and use the matching engine tin (with nipple either on the right or on the left).
_________________
'79 Westy, P22 interior, FI 2.0 l Federal, GE engine (hydraulic lifters)

Decode your M-Plate

[SGKent]

yes, what Randy said - different lower mounting studs, you'll need to move the flex plate over, the carbon canister position is different, different starter, and the exhaust on a GE engine was different in 1979 so be sure to swap it over if the engine was mounted on a bus made 8-1978 -> 12-1978. It will be obvious.

Unless you scattered the 1977 bus engine it might be just as easy to rebuild it.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin